Winchester brass

Follow up on brass issue: Today, I received a check from Winchester for the 5 bags of .204 brass that I returned. I told them how much I paid for the brass and shipping, didn't even mention tax. Their check compensated me for all my expenses. They apologized for any inconvenience.
I have to give Winchester credit for standing behind their products. I'm still a Winchester customer, and appreciate how this matter was resolved.
 
I generally figure I'll have one or two fails within a box/bag of 50, no matter what brand, until I get to premium brass like Norma, Nosler, Lapua... For Win, Rem, Starline, Top Brass, etc, I figure on a couple percent as failure - but I do NOT figure on a "few" percent as failures.

I will say - I'm disappointed in Winchester's processes for customer service. Their service is great, but their processes are silly. I found a bad batch of Winchester 243win brass, I had bought 2 bags, and out of 100 pieces, 57 of them had problems with the flash holes. One additional piece had a crumpled shoulder, and another was badly enough gouged such I wouldn't feel safe loading it, so a full 59 out of 100 of them were defective. I returned to the store and examined the other 3 bags they had - same lot LF41 - and even through the clear window, I could see several of the flash holes had the same issue. I found more of the same lot at another store in a different state - more of the same issue.

So I called Winchester, they sent me a return mailing authorization, and agreed they'd fully refund my costs... And here's where my problem with their process starts... They said the refund would be a physical check, mailed 2-3wks after receipt of the returned brass. So we're talking a MONTH to refund my expense. I would have rather had them send me new brass anyway, and I certainly would have preferred to NOT take a full month to rectify the problem.

It's 2017 - mailing a physical check and taking a full month to process a return just doesn't make sense.
 
They can hold onto your money as long as they can and make money off it. It puzzles me how they can instantly deduct it out of your account electronically but it takes 5-7 working days for a refund. Then send a check that takes 2-4 days to clear. Go Figure.
 
The lady originally told me it may take two months to process my check, and I got it in a month. And, the check they sent was for MORE than I spent. Course in a perfect world, the brass would have been good to start with, but sometimes things just don't work out that way.
I'm happy with their attitude and willingness to make things right. The few weeks "wait" is a non issue to me.
 
Sorry but I see nothing right with a company as old as Winchester letting sub standard products go out on the shelf. Then take a month to refund your money. If the brass was quality to start with, refunds wouldn't be necessary. Its just the top squeezing the bottom for more profit to fill their pockets.
 
Originally Posted By: rudymontanaMade in America should mean the product can't be made any better. PERIOD! Rudy


This is true but sad that it is not the way. Any more, I look to the Europeans to produce the finest brass out there. They also seem to be producing better factory rifles such as Tikka and Sako. Anymore, anything built better in America means having a boutique 'smith build it the way you want it with after market barrels.
 
I am sure you have checked the flash holes, but I bought 3 bags of 25-06 Winchester brass a few years ago and about 1/3 had out of round, weird shaped flash holes.

It seems like a lot of the necks are all out of round. I bet they take the rejects of the factory ammo brass and bag it for reloading.

Also have noticed the primer pockets loosening up on the Winchester 243 brass, especially with WLR primers when I seat them.
 
Originally Posted By: rudymontanaMade in America should mean the product can't be made any better. PERIOD! Or is this product outsourced? Rudy

Unfortunately Made In America does not amount to much on a whole lot of items. Very few take pride in what they do any more. It is all about mass production and doing it fast. It is a disposable world any more. It has become acceptable to buy something, have it not last and through it away to buy it again. That is why I don't get stuck on buying items made here. I will buy from the company that makes the better items.
 
The new Win brass does not polish up to a smooth luster like the old stuff, and the headstamp is not as deep. Out of a new bag/100 rifle brass only 1 was bad, had a fold in the shoulder/neck. Mouths were fine. Just doesn't look as nice. Seems to shoot fine.
 
I had six pieces of this crap brass left that had not been fired yet. I was going to load 12 rounds so 6 pieces was new unfired, annealed and resized and 6 were used. I loaded all 12 with 52.5 grains of IMR 4350, which is 3/10's under Hodgdons max load with a 100 grain bullet. I fired the first shot, went where it was suppose to, no ill effects, no sticky bolt, everything seemed normal. I ejected the case and the primer is laying in the action. Second shot...everything normal and brass looked to be fine. Third shot, seemed normal, ejected the round and the primer looks like it could fall out. I tapped the case on the bench and it did fall out. Two more pieces of junk Winchester brass. I fired the last three new unfired pieces and they were fine and fired the last six of used brass and they were fine. Seems as though the primer pockets were just large enough the primes won't stay in after being fired. Now, out of a 50 count bag, 4 are useless. Aggravating to say the least.
 
One thing to consider - with a 4% failure rate, they're still cheaper for 46 pieces than higher reputation brass would be, and buying many brands still won't guarantee you won't have a piece or two of bad brass in the batch. I've never picked a piece of Lapua brass which was junk (that I recall), but I've also never paid winchester prices for Lapua quality either. Hornady, Nosler, Norma, Win, Rem, Starline, Top Brass... Pick your poison, any of them will have a certain failure rate. I tend to worry a lot less about a few percent failure rate in the original batch and worry a lot more about how many pieces "die" over the next few firings. I have Lapua 308 palma brass with 25-30 loads on a blended batch with less than 10% of them splitting or loosening, whereas I've loosened pockets in 10-15% of Hornady brass in 15 firings with the same level loads, and have split necks in half of a batch of FC brass in under a dozen firings. The Hornady is still cheaper per firing than the Lapua, but I have peace of mind with the Lapua brass knowing more will make it home each trip... What's that peace of mind worth to you?
 
For the past few years, I've been aggravated with any brass I
have purchased. Is there any new brass out there which is NOT
made shorter than trim length??

In the past, (late '90's/early 2000's) Winchester was my choice
for brass. Now there's too many horror stories about both their
brass and primers to trust buying it. Remington lost me when a
batch of .25-06 brass cracked at the neck on the first loading.
Annealing prevented the rest of the cases from cracking, but
should that be needed the first time around?

Especially when it comes to anything gun related, I much prefer
to buy American, but when it comes to quality going down the
tube, my loyalty goes to what works. Lately, I have been very
impressed with PRVI brass. It does come shorter than trimmed
length, but so does the other brass. Some of the flash holes
have bad burrs, but I use a flash hole uniformer in all my
brass anyway. But there is no problem with loose primer cups
and it gets annealed perfectly, making it easy to work with.

Last time I looked, Powder Valley had PRVI .25-06 brass. It's
less expensive, too. I'm sold on it!
 
I just loaded up 200 rounds of 204R ammo using new Nosler brass. Brass was bulk bagged, not boxed and I think I purchased from Graf's a year or two ago. Anyway, there were about 6-8 pieces of brass with split necks in each bag of 100. It was aggravating to see but I attribute it to the lack of QC during the post Sandy Hook component shortage/buying frenzy. I'm hoping that the QC will come back now that the panic seems to have subsided.
 
My opinion for what its worth, There is no good excuse for poor quality control. It all boils done to greedy money hungry companies that keep upping their profits while cutting costs and quality. If you buy a dozen eggs and there is only 10 in the box???????
 
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