Cross ruled unconstitutional

Originally Posted By: Rocky1Originally Posted By: swampwalker

So I suppose a Muslim group could put up a statue of Mohamed in a park and you'd be okay with that? If not you're simplistic hypocrite. If you want to setup a huge cross put it on all that tax free land the churches have. Seems simple enough

I'm not even going to waste time comparing a bike trail to a religious relic...


So what you're saying is you are offended, if not you're simplistic hypocrite.

Well, I've decided to waste time.. the difference between a bike trail and a religious relic, since I need to explain, is that a bike trail can be used by all. There's proven health benefits of bicycling. Especially, if you're fat and lazy. Which happens to be a growing percentage of the population. Also, a bike trail could potentially have an economical draw to an area, Be used as a mode of travel..allow handicapped people access to views..list really goes on.

Anyway, kudos to the judge for making the right call, even though he had some skin in the game.


 
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nope, i wouldn't care if the public funds were used to take care of a crescent moon statue in deer born Mich.
If a Muslim Community's can get a enough support 60 years ago to build the crescent that is their choice.

As it is the choice of those in Chicago to have that bean.. But, what you are saying is that someone if offended and don't even live in Chicago should be able to sue and have it replaced or removed. despite the many being OK with it.
 
As I understand it, tax paying Residents of the county seeked outside consultation on the matter. These people didn't just arbitrarily arrive at that cross. The issue was brought to them.

Still, Somehow I'm doubting that you'd be Okay with paying for a large crescent moon going up in your town park. Remember, Christianity will be number two soon behind Muslim. actually Iets call that number three, since nonbelievers outnumber any one religion.
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZnope, i wouldn't care if the public funds were used to take care of a crescent moon statue in deer born Mich.


Why would you care?
Not in your back yard, and not your tax dollars.
And not your problem.

How about a nice Islamic statue in a public park across the street from your house, all paid for with your tax dollars?
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerLook, just because they could be radical doesn't mean they're not right in this particular case. You see, some of us are not brainwashed into picking a particular paradigm. I don't need to pick a "team". It's a better strategy to follow the truth.

As entertaining, though as it is, to watch the spiritual wars between cults that believe in fictional characters, It crosses a line when those that don't belong to said cult, pay for their toys.


I already asked this, but the question was sidestepped. " Would you be okay with funding the maintenance of a statue of Mohamed on public property?" If not, then why? Would i be willing to pay for the up keep for a statue of mohammed! Well lets see here if this country was built upon islam and if our money said in alloh we trust and if you had to put your hand on the koran to be sworn in. Then i would think about it. But we all know whether some like it or not this country was built on christanity. What ever happen to the majority being the deciding factor? Why should 4 people get to decide?
 
The Majority never was a deciding factor. This country is what's called a 'Republic', where all members have equal rights.

You should do some research on the founding fathers and the constitution. Maybe then you'd know that this country wasn't founded on any religion. That's what separates us from being a theocracy, like Iran.
 
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Originally Posted By: swampwalkerLook, just because they could be radical doesn't mean they're not right in this particular case. You see, some of us are not brainwashed into picking a particular paradigm. I don't need to pick a "team". It's a better strategy to follow the truth.

As entertaining, though as it is, to watch the spiritual wars between cults that believe in fictional characters, It crosses a line when those that don't belong to said cult, pay for their toys.


I already asked this, but the question was sidestepped. " Would you be okay with funding the maintenance of a statue of Mohamed on public property?" If not, then why?



So what you're saying is, if they come after your guns, decide to legalize pedophiles in your daughter's bathroom at the park and it's the truth, it's all OK?


If the Muslims wanted to pay to erect a statue, as was the case with this cross; that was tasteful, that required very little maintenance, no honestly I wouldn't be opposed. It would probably wouldn't remain tasteful and would require a great deal of maintenance in my neighborhood however, because down here in the bible belt it probably wouldn't be tolerated by many. That however is not my fault.




Originally Posted By: swampwalkerWell, I've decided to waste time.. the difference between a bike trail and a religious relic, since I need to explain, is that a bike trail can be used by all. There's proven health benefits of bicycling. Especially, if you're fat and lazy. Which happens to be a growing percentage of the population. Also, a bike trail could potentially have an economical draw to an area, Be used as a mode of travel..allow handicapped people access to views..list really goes on.

Anyway, kudos to the judge for making the right call, even though he had some skin in the game.





Theoretically, the "religious relic" could be used by all just as well as the bike path, in your synopsis. There are no doubt those who choose not to use the "religious relic", just as there are those who do not use the bike path.

The bike path was built by the taxpayers, ALL of them. The "religious relic" in question, was donated.

The maintenance and upkeep on the bike path, it is safe to say, is tens of thousands of times higher than the maintenance and upkeep on the "religious relic".

The articles on this particular "religious relic" clearly indicate that thousands of people attended services held annually there. It obviously was a draw as well.

You were right about wasting time trying to argue that point, because your argument failed miserably on all counts. There are tens of thousands of miles of bike path here in the Sunshine State, costing the tax payers billions of dollars to build, millions of dollars to maintain, and most you seldom see a rider on them.

Regardless, 4 wacked out radicals were allowed, by law, to deprive thousands of people of a "religious relic" they cherish. As one commenter on one of the Facebook pages stated, "She complains and states that she has to explain the cross to her children when she goes to the park. My children have grown up in that park, I and my husband were married in that park, under that cross. Now I have explain to my children why that cross was taken down. What's the difference?"

The difference is, those who don't believe, feel they have to impose their belief upon others, because they feel threatened, by something they claim doesn't exist.


 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerThe difference is, one side won the case and the other lost because it was found unconstitutional.

Yep.

Looks like a done deal.
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerThe difference is, one side won the case and the other lost because it was found unconstitutional.

So you're saying you won't have a problem with your daughter sharing the restroom with pedophiles when that law passes constitutional muster?


Originally Posted By: fw707Yep.

Looks like a done deal.


That depends totally upon whether the Mayor elects to challenge and appeal the ruling to a higher court.
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerThe Majority never was a deciding factor. This country is what's called a 'Republic', where all members have equal rights.

You should do some research on the founding fathers and the constitution. Maybe then you'd know that this country wasn't founded on any religion. That's what separates us from being a theocracy, like Iran.
That was funny. Ok to begin with the majority is what makes this a democracy. And yes we all do have rights AS long as the right do not infringe on others rights. As far as our founding yes and no to what you said. To begin with IF you know much about history it was set up so that we could be FREE to live in our religous believes. Who were all of these people back then? Well lets look at that! French hugoenots, brits ,irish scotts, russian orthonoxs, and a few others. Well tell me what do all these people have in common? Maybe they were all mostly going to there own type of churches? But were some form of Christinanity. Please do your own history checking and tell me if and how you can prove me wrong on that!!
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerThe difference is, one side won the case and the other lost because it was found unconstitutional.
And the moral of the story is...

The world is not righteous because man cannot see God.

The world is not just because man killed his creator.
 
"The articles on this particular "religious relic" clearly indicate that thousands of people attended services held annually there. It obviously was a draw as well. "

The picture is becoming clearer now. Not only do nonbelievers in a particular faith have to pay for maintenance. Also, when you show up to the park to play frisbee with your son, you have to be quiet and respectful as to not disrupt the congregation..

Lol. So tell me Rocky, will you be respectful when the "thousands" of Muslim worshippers show up in your town park?
 
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Originally Posted By: hunter243sgkOriginally Posted By: swampwalkerThe Majority never was a deciding factor. This country is what's called a 'Republic', where all members have equal rights.

You should do some research on the founding fathers and the constitution. Maybe then you'd know that this country wasn't founded on any religion. That's what separates us from being a theocracy, like Iran.
That was funny. Ok to begin with the majority is what makes this a democracy. And yes we all do have rights AS long as the right do not infringe on others rights. As far as our founding yes and no to what you said. To begin with IF you know much about history it was set up so that we could be FREE to live in our religous believes. Who were all of these people back then? Well lets look at that! French hugoenots, brits ,irish scotts, russian orthonoxs, and a few others. Well tell me what do all these people have in common? Maybe they were all mostly going to there own type of churches? But were some form of Christinanity. Please do your own history checking and tell me if and how you can prove me wrong on that!!




"The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalker"The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

The purpose of that quote from John Adams was intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate needed to make clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli



John Adams also made these statements in other documents:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1

Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean [beeep].2

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.3

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!4

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.5

End notes:

1.Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.

2. John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, p. 254, to Thomas Jefferson on April 19, 1817.

3. John Adams, Works, Vol. III, p. 421, diary entry for July 26, 1796.

4. John Adams, Works, Vol. II, pp. 6-7, diary entry for February 22, 1756.

5. John Adams, Works, Vol. X, p. 85, to Thomas Jefferson on December 25, 1813.

https://wallbuilders.com/founding-fathers-jesus-christianity-bible/
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerLol. So tell me Rocky, will you be respectful when the "thousands" of Muslim worshippers show up in your town park?

I doubt thousands of Muslim worshipers would show up if the cross was still there.
 
Originally Posted By: Rocky1Originally Posted By: swampwalkerThe difference is, one side won the case and the other lost because it was found unconstitutional.

So you're saying you won't have a problem with your daughter sharing the restroom with pedophiles when that law passes constitutional muster?






For some reason you seem to keep avoiding answering this question Swampy why?
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalker"The articles on this particular "religious relic" clearly indicate that thousands of people attended services held annually there. It obviously was a draw as well. "

The picture is becoming clearer now. Not only do nonbelievers in a particular faith have to pay for maintenance. Also, when you show up to the park to play frisbee with your son, you have to be quiet and respectful as to not disrupt the congregation..

Lol. So tell me Rocky, will you be respectful when the "thousands" of Muslim worshippers show up in your town park?


Well... if you showed up to play Frisbee on one of the few days a year that services are actually held at the cross, during the hour or two that the actual services were going on, or possibly during one of the wedding ceremonies that are held there, you'd probably have to park way down by the beach to begin with, and anyone with an IQ greater than 3, living in the state with more miles of sandy beach than any other in the nation, would probably just opt to play Frisbee on the beach, since that is way more fun than playing Frisbee in the park to begin; rather than being an asss and creating a commotion during services. Or, you could simply go to one of the other 16 parks in town, but it is a public park, a rather large public park from what I understand, and you would be free to use it, if you truly wanted to prove what an asss you were.


Thousands of Muslim worshipers wouldn't consider showing up in my home town Swampy, 85% of the population in a community of 50,000+ voted Trump. But, if they did, I'd probably just sit out here in the country, let the folks in town deal with it, and read about it in our worthless little paper the next day.


 
Interesting, I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned.. just thinking the park be better for playing games and churches / mosques more fitting for places of worship. I gotta give you and Tbone credit though for wanting to let Muslims worship in your parks and take care of their ornaments for them. I guess you guys are better men then me.

Nice try fursniper, I'm sure by now in your research you've discovered that Jefferson AKA the "howling atheist" in his day by his political opponents, had a hobby of taking sharp instruments to the Bible. To seek out and rearrange what he called "diamonds in a dunghill" .. he eventually ended up with the Jefferson bible. A book that omitted all the miracles and the resurrection...but held onto the moral teachings that he felt had value.
 
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