22 NOSLER FROM RPG AND SOME NOSGAR SPICE

GLShooter

Active member
I received my BHW 22 Nosler upper about three weeks ago. The upper build assembly was done by Ritch Johnson the Sponsor r here. He builds FINE uppers. I made two trips to the desert to shoot this one and the wind was so horrendous I wasn’t going to was the components.

Just a quick description on this one to get started. The barrel is a standard weight 22 Nosler, 1:8 twist target crown. The upper is an AERO with a Young Manufacturing FF tube, Joe Bob’s adjustable gas block. The BCG is a PSA Premium. The lower is the one I use in F-Class with a Giselle High Speed Match trigger and some upgraded operating services from Magpul.

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I took it out on a hot day, well not as hot as today, with an early temp of 92 ending up at 98 in about three hours. The wind started out mild and picked up to gusts up to about 20 MPH. It blew my target cardboard off once early on and blew the target stand over until I spiked it with some 10” steel. Eventually the wind blew my chronograph over about sixty shots into it popping one of the sky screens open and rendering it useless. That stopped the testing at not quite complete!! One thing of note is I shot only 40 grain Noslers on the first trip and I anticipated 4000+ on the clock. This exceeds the level of my LabRadar so I was using the CED Millennium I have used for years.

My standard testing is to take one bullet and three powders. I will shoot all these at one COL for consistency. This time I chose IMR 8208 XBR, Benchmark and H4895. All loaded to 2.260 using Winchester Small Rifle primers. Brass was brand new Nosler. I had contacted Hodgdon last month and they sent me seven pages of reloading data. I picked some go fast loads and went to. I had some experience shooting the 22 Nosler in a STONER barrel a few months ago so I knew that the loads were pretty safe as Hodgdon only listed around 53,000 on theirs and SAAMI is 55,000 so I had a cushion. The throat on this one is SAAMI to accommodate the 77/80’s so the 40’s had plenty of running room.

The barrel was swabbed for any dust and residual manufacturing junk and then on to the bench. First up were the 8208 loads. The first two were used to get on paper at 100. At 32.5 grains I got 3966 and a nice 0.804 group. Bumped to 32.8 got me 4029 yielding a 0.866 try. The final load on this one at book MAX was at 33.1 grains at 4070 and gave me a nice pair at 0.912 and 0.636. Considering this is a 1:8 twist I was not expecting overly much. I had decided anything under an inch would be GTG for a first outing without tuning.

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Next I moved on to Benchmark. This one has usually performed well in the 6.8 sized cases that the Nosler mimics so it was a natural for the rotation. Starting at 31.8 I got 3919 and had one at 1.030. Sub-MOA but not sub enough. About this time the swirlies were moving in and the temp was up to 98.8 per my Kestrel. The 32.1 load was at 3961. Good speed but I blew those groups up like a circus balloon under the big top. I took a break and had some water looking for non-existent shade. After about ten minutes things seemed to straighten out and I got down on the gun again. At 32.4 grains of Benchmark I hit 4008 and laid down two back to back groups of 0.825 and 0.845. The 0.835 would have been a real smoker if I hadn’t leaned in on shot #5...LOL

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The last powder for the day that I managed to get to was the H4895. I have had inconsistent results with this one but I do like it in general so it was given a day in the sun. This was when I got bit by the wind hard. I think that Old Man Winter from Minnesota just wanted to let me know that it can blow all the way to Arizona!! Not cold but hard. Thanks to wiping out my chronograph on shot #5 I was only able to shoot the 31.9 load and got enough readings to show at 3875. Definitely lower than the other two but I want to see how the rest of the loads read and print. I ended up with a 0.959 on this one. I’ve found historically on the Black Hole barrels that many times the faster you go the better you do. I can’t explain the physics but I’ll just accept the results on target.

Now as mentioned earlier I had shot the STONER barrel that Midway USA sold the week that the cartridge was released at SHOT. Mine shoots nice patterns and copper fouls terribly. Side by side testing with it showed that I could equal and in some cases exceed the speeds of the Nosler with a top end NATO load at 556 pressures with the same bullet shooting 50’s. Not a good deal. I used Nosler loading data for the STONER loads.

With this as noted I did manage a comfortable 4000+ on the clock. I routinely shoot 40’s in my 223’s at 3800 out of Remington bolt guns so a gain of 200 was noted. I should also note that I used Hodgdon data for these loads. Their loadings are higher than what Nosler has posted. Difference in components/chambers etc. may well make the difference on the published data.

As noted I did actually use the Hodgdon data right down to using the Winchester Small Rifle primers. In these cases I usually use a CCI 450 or Remington 7 ½ but I felt I should try and see what the big boys turn out in relation to this barrel. My results were a consistent 40-50 FPS higher than the 24” tube from Hodgdon test labs. I will attribute this to the BHW rifling. I have NEVER been under a published factory velocity using a same same load in a BHW barrel so I think I have a pretty good grasp on that one having shot thousands of groups and chronograph sessions with them.

Now for some other observations. Previously the STONER barrel shot like a shotgun with buck shot. The BHW tube did not. The barrel fouled terribly on the first one and on this one it was the normal BHW amount of virtually nothing. The brass on the STONER tube was TRASHED at even mild loads. Heavy swipes, bent and ripped rims were the norm for that one. It is an 18” rifle gas. I have it kitted out with an adjustable gas block and even turned virtually off and the cases sized 0.002 below chamber size were still getting beat up.

This one is a rifle gas and, as noted, has an adjustable block. I loaded top levels on the Hodgdon data yet the cases came out pristine with no swipes or other damage. Mind you this was new brass and it has a shoulder that is 0.008 below SAAMI chamber size. The WSR primers were not overly flattened. When I look at these under a10X loupe I would almost say they were on the mild side. I will probably push some harder in the future but my next testing will be done with 50’s, 69, and 77’s. The last two should really make the groups perk up but I’d bet a small Social Security check that the 50’s will turn this one into a fast moving pin wheeler. It may well start loosening the primer pockets with the bigger bullets but I’ll just have to find out about that. I also happen to know that Nosler redid their original brass mix right as they released this one to the public. Could it be the new brass is harder than the first batch I got? I would think tin foil hat but I’m not one of those in most instances but just maybe??

Some questions answered and some more contemplated. Lots of guys are talking about using the HAGAR brass reformed to the 22 Nosler size so they can us the bigger case head to distribute the bolt thrust across more area. It is kind of a money waster doing that, IMHO, as the 22X6.8 will run so close to this one as to be laughable but I’ll put in that order and give the 22 NOSGAR a shot too. I’d be out trying it out again but with the temperatures being 115-120 even I am not that motivated. 105 is about my MAX for temperature now as old age is making in-roads on my tolerance level...LOL

More later and we’ll see what happens.

Greg

 
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Wow Greg there's certainly a lot more positive to report than your previous tests with the Stoner barrel. I like those speeds. Is that just 24" barrel, it looks like 26.

I also like the possibility that the newer brass is tougher.
 
24" On this one. I want to see how it reacts to heavier bullets. Based on the other one this brass is worlds apart. Given these are both SAMMI chambers there is definitely something going on.

My results from the STONER barrel parralleled some other shooters so I don't think I'm crazy. I might sacrifice a couple of these new cases in the original upper and see how they look.

Greg
 
Yeah I got really lucky with my Stoner barrel. It continues to be extremely dependably accurate.
BTW I don't know how you can shoot in those temps. The news said 120 in Phoenix today. They even canceled flights because of it.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARYeah I got really lucky with my Stoner barrel. It continues to be extremely dependably accurate.
BTW I don't know how you can shoot in those temps. The news said 120 in Phoenix today. They even canceled flights because of it.

I drew the line at 105 in my mind, well maybe 110, as my tops. I reviewed some stuff I shot with a 20 LBC in 2011. It was 110-115 on those days. I am going to send some money in to a local club as they have covered benches and will be a lot easier on this old man plus not having to worry about guys wandering down range at the shooting spot out in the desert.

They cancelled 47 flights here today as of last night. The smaller feeder planes cannot take off above 118. Landing can still be done though. I flew Con Air and the hottest we hit was 122 for a take off in our 727. It was LONG run on takeoff!! LOL

I would stand for literally hours at times on the black top and just cook my feet through my boots swapping out inmates. We rotated our gun guys every 15 minutes. My job couldn't rotate. Lucky me.

Greg
 
After my trials and tribulations with the 18" Stoner 22 Nosler from Midway I obtained a new 24" tube from Black Hole. Nothing fancy just a standard weight tube. The Stoner was tearing up brass something fierce and had the largest groups I've ever shot with an AR. I got a new box of brass and decided to give it another try. Low and behold the brass showed virtually none of the destruction on firing from the first batch in the Stoner. I do believe there was a mix change on the brass. I saw a note on that in one of the gun magazines that they had reformulated/changed the brass. I suspect that the first stuff got boxed and was shipped off to the hinterlands. That doesn't cover the accuracy issue but it does make me feel a bit better not having bent rims and ripped edges that wouldn't let me get the brass in to a shell holder.

My basic build profile that I like for PD's. Vortex 6X20.Geissele with High Speed trigger to get things going.

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I wanted to see how the Hodgdon data I was sent ran so decided to go for some speed on the first outing so loaded up some 40 grain Noslers. The speed was there compared to the published data and I improved on it just a tad. I ran the same adjustable block on this one as I had on the Stoner and had it turned down to dead nuts 3 o'clock ejection. Brass was perfect coming out with no damage. I had to do this in two trips because of a family issue and rain about every time I wanted to head to the desert.

On the first day I got only a few rounds down range but enough to make me have hope. It liked 8208 and I liked the speeds.


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Tried some Benchmark and it was not letting me down at all. The groups weren't as tight but they were repeatable. I could live with this if that was the best I got but one can only hope some times.


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As I mentioned I had a long hiatus between trips as I had shot some H4895 on the first go around that did decent at a bit under a minute for two groups. I had two higher charge weights ready to go so they were my first targets of the day. It was only 99 or so but the winds decided to play nice. The first group was decent for a warm up and then I got a bit more comfortable. As the three groups were shot following that they dropped in CTC spread and I was pretty happy. Not the fastest load in town but I figured it liked the H4895 for a go to powder.


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I was getting happy quick and had one more batch of six rounds using H322 with three each at different charge weights. I would normally shot five shot groups but this finished off my brand new box of brass so I now have 100 cases dedicated to the rifle. This is a powder I normally don't play with but had a request to shoot some 6X6.8 with it for a test ladder so since I had the can out and it was listed by Hodgdon it was worth a fling.

Remember how I said the Stoner was the worst shooting AR I had ever had? As these groups formed I wasn't sure if I was seeing right but a walk down range fixed that puzzle for me. The last group of three is the best group I've ever shot in my life so I figured it was worth a show and tell. I'll be revisiting both the H4895 and the H322 on the next trip. Maybe I flinched just right for a change.


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All told the 22 Nosler got some street cred with me that day. I'll re-shoot some of the 40's and then some 50's on the next trip out. I have a 204 that is anxious to play also and it will be a god run between the two. With the decrease in case damage this one may get a bit more play as had something not changed this tube would have been setting in the corner after its audition.

Greg
 
Those are great groups, and very good news about the brass! My stoner barrel shoots way better than yours did, but not nearly like these groups. What is the lot number on that brass, and does it have a date on the box? I picked up a couple boxes at Cabelas at a close out price but not sure if it's newer improved stuff or still from the original run.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARThose are great groups, and very good news about the brass! My stoner barrel shoots way better than yours did, but not nearly like these groups. What is the lot number on that brass, and does it have a date on the box? I picked up a couple boxes at Cabelas at a close out price but not sure if it's newer improved stuff or still from the original run.

No idea on lot number but between the first and second batch from MIDWAY there was maybe 3 months. I'm sure the first sale cycle cleared out all the junk. I just shot some first run vs.second run and when I shoot the NOSGAR brass sent me I'll make a full report on the three. Some interesting things to report.

Greg
 
Greg,
That early nosler brass that I sent was horrid wasn't it lol

I can't wait to see your results on the Hagar brass, my results made it into a total different rifle. Less powder and 100 fps faster
 
I shot the EARLY stuff vs. the NEW stuff. I used a mild load of CFE and got rim notching with slight swiping in the EARLY, first cases, vs. the NEW, second batch, and the NEW showed no rim damage. The NOSGAR will be shot the next trip. I forgot to bring a 6.8 BCG so it wouldn't go bang as it wouldn't fit the bolt head.Imagine that!!LOL

I know from experience after shooting 100 rounds of the newer stuff that the brass has exactly zero bad traits in common with the first born. I may well write a letter to Nosler and see what they say.


Greg
 
As I was working with this one I talked to guys all over the US. We felt the brass sucked initially but had gotten better. One member here, BleedsBLue sent me some brand new first run brass and I had some second run to try. Additionally he sent me ten pieces of NOSGAR brass. This is 6 MM HAGAR necked to 22 with the shoulder shoved back and shortened to 45 MM. It is 6.8 size like the Nosler so it will run in the chamber and only the back end is different using a 6.8 bolt face vs. the 223. He sent along some 53 grain Hornady VMAX and some 53 grain Nosler Varmageddon bullets. I had never tried that weight so I ran the test with it.

The OLD brass got rims that were eaten up somewhat but with a change to the BHW chamber vs. my original STONER this improved. The second lot of Nosler brass came out looking very nice and not abused at all. The NOSGAR stuff looked pristine and like any of my normal 6.8 variant cases. No shiny marks or ripped rims at all.

Velocities on the loads hoovered around 3675 with the VMAX and up to 3710 with the VG's. The NOSGAR VMAX ran 3697 and the VG's were pushing 3750.These were all over a 33 grains of CFE. Middle of the road and not excessive on the loading data list.. This barrel is an 8 twist just like the factory offerings are. Hers what was interesting. All VMAX hit and grouped . The VG's blew up or tumbled. In fact the VG's in the second run brass at 3710 ALL blew up. At 3677 one of teh five tumbled!!

The actual Nosler brass test was done early on and I delayed the NOSGAR as I didn't have a 6.8 BCG with me that day!! LOL Anyway on the VG's at 3750 three of the five reached the paper. The VMAX pushed out at 3697 and all hit. Now here is what's interesting. No attempt for load work up was done at all. Just the straight 33 grains of CFE 223 across the boards. I was shooting in 75 degree weather with a slight variable wind. My reward for all this work came down to the last five shots for the day with this rifle. Once this was done I put a cork in it. Wouldn't you?

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I'll be ordering some HAGAR for further testing but I think mine just got a new name.


Greg
 
The NOSGAR is the Nosler chamber but the bolt swapped with a 6.8, using case prepped Hager brass?

How much is involved in the case prep?
 
Originally Posted By: Redleg84The NOSGAR is the Nosler chamber but the bolt swapped with a 6.8, using case prepped Hager brass?

How much is involved in the case prep?

Yep. Run the HAGAR up in the Nolser die. Trim the case to length to 1.750. Swap the bolt out to a 6.8 and enjoy. Easy as pie.

I'll have to check my notes and get a volume comparison between the 22 Nolser, the NOSGAR and the one that the Nolser or Valkyrie should have been the 22X6.8. I'll post those up later.

Greg
 
I've been holding off on the 22 Nosler, especially after initial reports. I might go this route in my next upper.

Curious to see the volume differences
 
Originally Posted By: old catGreg is that just one time run of Hagar Brass in a .22 Nosler fl sizing die.

One stroke. It's only going from 6 MM to 223 so it is fine. BleedsBlue made these but that's what I will do. I could do an initial sizing with a 6.8 bushing die if I wanted to but the standard die is what I will use more than likely.

Greg
 
Impressive speeds on that one and awesome group, good shooting!

Your results with the VG bullets doesn't surprise me. I blew up a 55 gr VG in my 243 lbc and it took out my suppressor baffles. 1-8 twist. They are not tough bullets at all.
 
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