TSS shot testing

Originally Posted By: GCOriginally Posted By: YooperCaller... Hal told me that TSS was about the same for penetration and energy as lead shot four levels down.

That's a handy yardstick for comparison.

You got that Right!

Dave and Bob, we really owe you!

Dave, perhaps a .675 choke is your next try?????
 
Dave,
If my M1 Benelli chokes would fit your M2 I would gladly lend them to you to help with the testing. Unfortunately they won't, sorry. I know the expense of rounding up chokes and loads to do testing such as this. I've done it for turkey hunting and predator hunting. The whole process is expensive, labor intensive and time consuming. It can also be very frustrating. However, after pouring out the sweat and dollars when you do finally hit on that perfect combination and you can pull down on that coyote at the ragged edge of sensible yardage with confidence and see it go "toes to the wind" at the shot it's all worth it.
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Originally Posted By: ANF HunterIf i was trying to sell TSS around here, I'd be sending DAA some free shot after he did all the hard work and detailed testing to show us it's capabilities....

I've been waiting for an offer like that for Dave. Been disappointed so far...
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Carlson makes a .675 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Only other ones I've found are pricey.

Will try the factory full .685 with the 4's before I buy anything else though. Might as well try the .665 I have with them too, just to see.

Really do intend that will be "it" for testing this year though. Just can't afford to spend any more money on it.

That yardstick of four sizes lower for TSS is interesting. I had read that somewhere last year when I got interested in TSS. Probably posted by Hal somewhere. Puts TSS #2 roughly equivalent to #4 Buck.

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Keeping in mind, it's just a rough yardstick, I'd say that's about right. Puts TSS #4 at about F Buck? Chart above, that's plausible too. Although, TSS #4 sucks hind teet to F Buck on phone books
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But the turkey guys that seem pretty well convinced that TSS 9's are solid 50 yard coyote medicine and that anything larger than TSS #7 for coyote is insane overkill... Using that same yardstick, they are basically saying #4 or maybe #2 lead is good for coyote. Which, we all know is utter nonsense. I think #2 lead would be "okay" for shooting them in the face under 40 yards, but that's about it. That might partially explain the thought process too though. I really don't know, but do wonder, if most of the coyotes they have killed are sneaking into turkey calls and indeed, getting shot in the face at 40 yards. If that's what most of my shotgun coyote situations were, I sure wouldn't need anything like TSS though. Heck, if that's really what most of my shotgun coyote shots were, I wouldn't even need a shotgun. Rifle works real good for stationary coyotes.

Everyone has their own set of circumstances. But for the way I hunt, shotgun coyotes are much more like wing shooting than turkey shooting. The big majority of them are running, and at all sorts of crazy angles as they can come from any direction as they zig and zag and leap and flash through the sage brush.

- DAA
 
I've shot a Bakers dozen coyotes with 3" plated lead #4's from a tight shooting 12 gauge. My experiences are that anything over 30 yards is sketchy. Some of those while turkey hunting, some while predator calling in the early years. I've also shot a few with Hevi 13 #6's while turkey hunting. That's better but it surely isn't a bonafide predator hunting shell. Breaking down a running coyote in brush at any angle is a whole nuther ballgame than cracking a stationary turkey skull or neck vertebrae. Another thing, a valid result can't be claimed from just a couple experiences. There is a certain diaphragm call company that cannot be named here that has a YouTube video where they are turkey hunting and end up calling some coyotes in. They shoot one and have a heck of a long recovery which involves wading a pond and finishing the coyote with a heavy stick utilized as a club. Those guys will tell you about turkey loads and coyotes. Granted, none of those are TSS pellets but comparing turkey hunting to coyote hunting isn't apples to apples.
 
when pheasant hunting at cousin's in Kansas, we would often do a coyote stand. I due to the extreme cold and wind, I shot a 3" #4, 1 5/8 oz doing 1300 fps~. Coyotes were often knocked down, and had to be shot multiple times, if not HEAD shot. This was one heck of a pheasant load at 70 yards.

I still have a partial bag of some copper plated #2's left over from duck hunting in the 80's. I shot up my remaining loaded shells loaded in #2 Cu lead on jack rabbits some years ago and have never felt any need for trying them on coyotes.
 
It only costs about $7 to test a "new" choke. Send it to me in a flat rate box with the size you want to test and I'll bore it to that size on the lathe and send it back. Simple as dirt....
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Originally Posted By: DAAProblem is, I don't want to mess with my GT .670 or DC .665 chokes.
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- DAA
Yah, I don't suppose you would. I don't have a sacrificial crio choke that I could open up to your dimensions. I just got a new M2 last week so I don't have much in the way of crio chokes hanging around here. I have several Mobile chokes that fit my old H&K Benelli M1 S90 but as you know that's a different thread pattern. The offer is still good if we can come up with a choke to work on,
 
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Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGSomebody pitch in and loan DAA some custom chokes for testing so he can get this figured out.

Wait a year?! Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!

Perhaps we could start up a little "Go-fund-me" style account on this board for these fine gentlemen in the name of applicable science? Or get that research on a bulk buy going.
 
Originally Posted By: DAAYeah, that's what I'm thinking. Carlson makes a .675 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Only other ones I've found are pricey.

Will try the factory full .685 with the 4's before I buy anything else though. Might as well try the .665 I have with them too, just to see.

Really do intend that will be "it" for testing this year though. Just can't afford to spend any more money on it.

That yardstick of four sizes lower for TSS is interesting. I had read that somewhere last year when I got interested in TSS. Probably posted by Hal somewhere. Puts TSS #2 roughly equivalent to #4 Buck.

KYP%20TableW.jpg



Keeping in mind, it's just a rough yardstick, I'd say that's about right. Puts TSS #4 at about F Buck? Chart above, that's plausible too. Although, TSS #4 sucks hind teet to F Buck on phone books
laugh.gif
.

But the turkey guys that seem pretty well convinced that TSS 9's are solid 50 yard coyote medicine and that anything larger than TSS #7 for coyote is insane overkill... Using that same yardstick, they are basically saying #4 or maybe #2 lead is good for coyote. Which, we all know is utter nonsense. I think #2 lead would be "okay" for shooting them in the face under 40 yards, but that's about it. That might partially explain the thought process too though. I really don't know, but do wonder, if most of the coyotes they have killed are sneaking into turkey calls and indeed, getting shot in the face at 40 yards. If that's what most of my shotgun coyote situations were, I sure wouldn't need anything like TSS though. Heck, if that's really what most of my shotgun coyote shots were, I wouldn't even need a shotgun. Rifle works real good for stationary coyotes.

Everyone has their own set of circumstances. But for the way I hunt, shotgun coyotes are much more like wing shooting than turkey shooting. The big majority of them are running, and at all sorts of crazy angles as they can come from any direction as they zig and zag and leap and flash through the sage brush.

- DAA



Dave,

You are correct, Carlson's is where its at for shooting TSS, they don't cost a ton, and they throw excellent patterns with TSS. The carlson's extended chokes are my go to when setting up a gun to shoot TSS. I do have some of the more expensive chokes, and they shoot great, but they were more pertinent during the Hevi era.
 
Great info Dave. Glad to see some non biased straight forward practical testing and results. Thanks for sharing. I'd definitely be interested in the group buy for #2s.
 
One of the big advantages of TSS shot is it has much less wind resistance than lead shot.

I just put some shot types and sizes into my KPY Shotshell Ballistic program and came up with some interesting numbers.

I had to change the gel penetration set point around to get the distances all to come out to 62.3 yards. The speeds on all of these loads are 1250 fps at the muzzle. I think that 3.70" of gel penetration is a good requirement to reliably kill or breakdown coyotes.

Lead BB 1250 fps, time to 62.3 yards is .212 sec, gel penetration 3.11", speed at 62.3 yards 682 fps
TSS #4 1250 fps, time to 62.3 yards is .203 sec, gel penetration 4.15", speed at 62.3 yards 737 fps
TSS #3 1250 fps, time to 62.3 yards is .199 sec, gel penetration 4.68", speed at 62.3 yards 760 fps
TSS #2 1250 fps, time to 62.3 yards is .197 sec, gel penetration 5.20", speed at 62.3 yards 778 fps
Lead 4 Buck 1250 fps, time to 62.3 yds .199 sec, gel penetration 5.00", speed at 62.3 yards 772 fps

A Number 4 buckshot pellet weighs over twice as much as a TSS #2 shot pellet does but the smaller diameter TSS # 2 pellet retains more speed.

A 1-1/2 oz load of TSS #3 shot has 100 pellets per shell.
A 1-1/2 oz load of TSS #2 shot has 81 pellets per shell.
A 1-7/8 oz load of lead #4 buck has 41 pellets per shell.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanBB, T, F buck, and #4 buck(TSS) would be great for a military application, eh?

I agree!

A fully automatic 10 gauge mounted to a truck, shooting 2 ounces of TSS BB shot at 1300 fps would be pretty deadly.

1300 fps TSS BB shot, gets 5.0" of gel penetration at 117 yards, 62 pellets in a 2 oz load.

Just to give you an idea of how dense TSS shot is. Federal heavyweight shot is 35% denser than lead. The 1-1/2 oz Federal Heavyweight Coyote BB loads have 62 pellets per load. A 2 oz load of TSS BB shot has 62 pellets per load.

If DAA will do some TSS testing with 10 ga 2 oz loads I will supply the primers!
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Originally Posted By: ackleyman"If DAA will do some TSS testing with 10 ga 2 oz loads I will supply the primers"

Hee Hee!

I will supply some once fired fed hulls!

i will supply the cigars.
 
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