Thermal questions

I don't know anything about them other than what I have read on specs for some models, but I am wondering if one model says it has a human detection range of 1000 yards and another says 500 yards, will a coyote at 200 yards look any different in either of them ? Also, would most of you recommend a scanner that has a longer detection range than your scope since I would likely be shooting at 250 yards or less ? I am trying to get the best bang for my buck and would like to get a thermal scope and scanner package for less than $4000, but I am not sure this is possible?
 

The detection ranges are based on lens size and I would not put too much emphasis on stated detection ranges used for marketing by the maufacturers. It stands to reason that the bigger the lens the more range and detail you will have for the same core resolution.

A lot of guys seem to think that bigger is better, the same as day optics. You have to keep in mind that your FOV will narrow as the lens gets bigger. Your quarry and style of hunting should be factored into your choice. Given your stated range I would suggest no bigger than a 35-38mm lens unit.

The next factor is core resolution. A 640 core will give better resolution and detail than a 320 core. Pulsar makes a 384 core that gives very usable detail in the field also.

The prices go up accordingly....a bigger lens and a higher resolution core translates into a higher price tag.

Sometimes I see guys that want to shoot at 500 yards and it sort of goes against the logic that you are out at night hunting with technology that will allow you to go undetected and that should make it a lot easier to either stalk or call your quarry to a much closer range. Up close and personal is the most fun part about hunting at night. It will also save you a lot of money to sharpen your hunting skills instead of going out and playing Sniper. You won't need a 5x 100mm lens.



 
Last edited:
Very good post above. I will add that if you want to go all thermal and reliably shoot out to 250, it'll cost more than 4k with the majority of the budget going towards a scope.
 
So, the larger lens will get you a clearer image (cores being the same) and further detection distance, but the trade off is less fov? Is that right?
 
Originally Posted By: capitolSo, the larger lens will get you a clearer image (cores being the same) and further detection distance, but the trade off is less fov? Is that right?

Yes....

The image clarity will be the same at native resolution for all the lens. The image will be LARGER with a higher maginification lens.

IRD Trijicon units for example......

19mm lens =22.5 degree FOV
35mm lens=12 degree FOV
60mm lens=7 degree FOV

http://www.trijiconeo.com/products/ir-hunter/
 
Last edited:
A lot of guys may disagree with me but unless you already have thermal scope or can't use ir light where you at I'd go with a nightvision scope. My buddy and both use hand held thermals and nightvision scopes and there's some peace of mind pulling the trigger on a coyote instead of a white image that moves like a coyote and has a coyoteish shape. We had a couple instances this past year where a pair of dogs came in downwind to the call and were sure they were coyotes until we looked thru a scope and found they were border collies from a nearby house. Keep in mind the farther you shoot with a thermal scope the less clear your image is so although you have the magnification to make a 400 yard shot on that coyote
It may turn out to be a deer when you go to drag it out. That's if you can judge the distance to hit it. In my oppinoin to get a scope that will give you a good identification of what you are shooting at past 250-300 yards irdefense are the ones
To look at but they more than 4K by themselves. As far as a scanner goes I'd take the fov over being able to tell what the hot spot actually is. For me the scope is what we use to positively identify. To me nighthunting isn't a long range shot situation. We try to keep them under 200 although we killed some around 300 but 100-150 is the preference. Just my two cents
 
Originally Posted By: DholsappleA lot of guys may disagree with me but unless you already have thermal scope or can't use ir light where you at I'd go with a nightvision scope. My buddy and both use hand held thermals and nightvision scopes and there's some peace of mind pulling the trigger on a coyote instead of a white image that moves like a coyote and has a coyoteish shape. We had a couple instances this past year where a pair of dogs came in downwind to the call and were sure they were coyotes until we looked thru a scope and found they were border collies from a nearby house.

I agree 100% with your analogy. I have some properties I refuse to hunt coyotes on because I know there are domestic farm dogs in the vicinity.
 
Thanks for all the great replies. We can not use any artificial light in Iowa, and as far as I know that includes IR illuminators. My first thought was to scan with themal and use a good gen 2 night vision scope without IR to shoot and just hunt on clear, first quarter thru last quarter moons, but I was told you need IR to shoot past 50 or 100 yards with NV no matter what. Is this true ?
I do not need to nor do I intend to shoot past 250 yards. Most of my shots would be between 50 and 150 yards. I would just like to be able to have the chance to shoot at one that hangs up around 200 to 250. Will a 384 core with say a 30 mm lens be able to meet my needs ?
Most of my hunting would be in the fall and winter when it is quite cool to cold out. Does this make it easier to see to warm blooded animals with thermal? I am just thinking a 98 degree coyote shows up more in 20 degree air than say when it is 70 out ? Does this make it easier to identify the type of critter I am viewing, say the difference between a coyote and a deer ?
 
Without the ir I'm not real sure what kind of range nightvision would give you as we generally always have a ir light on. I will say that for the money a nemesis scope is very good in gen 2+ and 200 yds and under quite compareable to the gen 3 that I have. High tech redneck has some comparison videos that show the scopes image in different light. Personally if I were going to a thermal scope I would look at the 640 cores as they will help with clarity and identification. Not sure on the prices but the trails would be something to look at and if staying with the 384 I'd probly look at the one with the more optical magnification not what the digital zoom goes up to as digital just make the picture bigger and does not add resolution same as zooming in on a digital camera after the picture was taken. The larger field of view on a scope is not as necessary to me as being able to identify what your shooting at. On temperature from my experience it seems with thermal, the size of the object dictates how well you can see it not the actual temperature of it. Deer I looked at in the evenings last summer looked the same as they did in January. Back to the scope, I would check into pulsars trail line if you go thermal. I will say I have another buddy that used an apex 38 I believe this past season and he is the most by the book hunter I know but 3 different species were accidentally mistaken for a coyote this past season. Keep in mind that when your coyote hunting your expecting to see a coyote and it's hard to convince yourself that what your looking at is not a coyote. Sometimes even an owl looks like a yote.
 
Thanks for the info even though some of it is a bit disappointing. Misidentifing a target is certainly not something I want to do. I think 80% of my shots would be between 100 and 150 yards. If a 384 core thermal, for what they cost, can't do that and know exactly what I am shooting at then what good are they?
 
Originally Posted By: iowayotehunter76Thanks for the info even though some of it is a bit disappointing. Misidentifing a target is certainly not something I want to do. I think 80% of my shots would be between 100 and 150 yards. If a 384 core thermal, for what they cost, can't do that and know exactly what I am shooting at then what good are they?

They are good for DETECTION. If you want to see exactly what you are shooting at use Gen 3 NV.

 
Last edited:
A good, budget friendly setup for your distance would be an inexpensive digital NV like a Sightmark Photon plus an entry level 640 scanner. The new Pulsar Helion XP28 or even a FLIR Scout 3 or LS-XR would be budget friendly 640 options . The Helion is the better option though. Either way, with those together you can still be at 4 or a little under for everything.
 
Yes, you will need a good IR in 850nm for the Photon. Everyone has somewhat different experiences, but a thermal scanner in any of the old Pulsar 19 or even 38 series with 384 core and 25 micron pitch is going to be completely adequate to locate every warm blooded animal within several hundred yards, farther than you can shoot with the Photon. While a more expensive scanner is nice, to me, since you have the Photon for positive ID there is no need to invest more than about $2,500 total for the scope at less than $500 and thermal scanner at less than $2,000.

The setup worked well enough for me, but I had a bit of difficulty sometimes locating the animal with the Photon even though it showed up great on thermal. My hunting partner still uses that setup very successfully. I switched to a thermal shooting scope Pulsar Apex50A and have absolutely no regrets, but everyone has a right to their own opinions. You can find several videos here in the night calling forum or the baiting thread showing both the Photon 4.6XT and the Pulsar Apex 50A and that might be of some help to you.
 
Originally Posted By: iowayotehunter76Thanks for all the great replies. We can not use any artificial light in Iowa, and as far as I know that includes IR illuminators.

You have to wonder what the idiots that make these laws are thinking??

Ok..... It's perfectly legal for people go out and shoot at night but let's make sure they can't tell what they are shooting at by using an artificial light source. Sounds logical....right???
mad.gif

 
Last edited:
I don't think a whole lot of thought went into the coyote hunting regulations. But a lot is done to protect Iowa's trophy deer herd and I think they thought the idea of spotlights, guns, and pick up trucks is too much temptation for some. There has been some effort recently to allow NV with IR, but I have yet to see any potential legislation on it. With good snow cover, a full moon, and a good light gathering day optic it actually works pretty good at night. But there are several times when calling can be tough because they really don't want to show themselves in the bright moonlight. I really want to try it on darker nights in late October and November when there are a lot more coyotes around.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: iowayotehunter76I don't think a whole lot of thought went into the coyote hunting regulations. But a lot is done to protect Iowa's trophy deer herd and I think they thought the idea of spotlights, guns, and pick up trucks is too much temptation for some.

I get the intent but it is just like a "gun free zone".....the only guys with the guns are the criminals that totally disregard the law. The same applies to poachers....they will poach regardless of the laws.

My contention is just the opposite is true in reality. The deer is more protected when it can be positively be identified as a deer.
 
We're much more logical in MO. No NV or thermal or lights of any kind, but there is no night hunting anyway, and we close coyote hunting during turkey hunting season statewide, not just on public land.
 
Back
Top