Use of semi-auto rifles in PA.

dan158

New member
HARRISBURG — Despite receiving unanimous support from the Pennsylvania Game Commission board in January, the numbers just didn’t add up when it came to allowing semi-automatic rifles to be used for big game hunting.

And while the PGC board voted on Tuesday to allow semi-automatic rifles to be used to hunt furbearers, groundhogs and small game, they opted to leave deer, bear, turkey and elk out of the mix.

Board president Brian Hoover, who made the amendment to pull big game from the proposal, said the move came after the agency received significant feedback from hunters. The agency received thousands of comments from the public and 2,000 more hunter responses to a survey that was conducted on the issue.



Top Searches


Kingston


In January, the board unanimously voted to grant preliminary approval for allowing semi-automatic rifles to be used in very hunting season, except spring gobbler. Less than two months later, the board reversed course when it came to big game, mainly due to results of an agency survey released on Monday. When asked if they supported semi-automatic rifles for big game hunting, 64 percent of those surveyed were opposed.

That convinced the board to hold off on allowing the firearms for big game, at least for now.

“We saw the survey numbers and it was pretty cut and dry at that point,” said commissioner Tim Layton.

But Layton added that the semi-automatic issue isn’t going away. He said younger hunters are generally supportive of allowing the rifles for big game, and the agency will continue to gauge overall hunter support.

“If it becomes appropriate to bring it back up we’ll do that,” Layton said. “Hunters want (semi-automatic rifles) for small game, coyotes and furbearers. Maybe when people get comfortable with them it might be a bridge to move it to big game.”

A major concern with allowing semi-automatic rifles for big game was safety. Commissioner James Daley said the board and agency staff spoke to other states where the rifles are allowed for hunting and learned that safety isn’t an issue.

“We went through an education process. Out hunters aren’t caught up yet. They haven’t had that awakening,” Daley said. “There are some true benefits of semi-autos - such as reduced recoil. Our hunters don’t understand that yet.”

The agency survey that asked hunters if they support the use of semi-automatic rifles for certain species was sent out in early February, after the board granted preliminary approval of the measure. Responses came in through the first week of March, and while more than half opposed semi-automatics for big game, Daley said the results changed if the question was worded differently. As part of the motion that passed in January, the board included language that limited magazine capacity to five rounds for semi-automatics used for big game. The magazine restriction wasn’t mentioned in the survey, and Daley felt if it was included more respondents would’ve been in favor of the concept.

While the agency survey was a critical factor in the board’s decision to remove big game, comments submitted directly to the game commission were drastically different, with 850 in favor and 220 against. Those comments came in waves, indicating movement by specific groups to state their position.

“We received a lot of well-written comments that carried a lot of weight, but the form letters I deleted,” said commissioner Dave Putnam.

Commissioner Charlie Fox added that opinions varied by geographic location as well.

“In the rural areas there was not a lot of support for semi-autos,” Fox said. “Those are more conservative communities.”

Still, the board didn’t rule out revisiting the issue and will maintain an open dialogue with hunters to see if opinions change.

“I don’t think the semi-auto conversation is going away,” Layton said. “It will be at the forefront for a while.”

http://timesleader.com/news/646767/game-...-turkey-hunting
 
Personally, I don't know why they didn't just make it legal for all species. Another bad decision by the PA Game Commission.
 
Originally Posted By: foxhoundPersonally, I don't know why they didn't just make it legal for all species. Another bad decision by the PA Game Commission.

Well when they did the survey they didn't mention there would be a 6 round cap.. So that got people nervous.. I believe in couple years they will be legal for big game.. But for now I am quite pleased that I can take my AR builds out and use for hunting.. This is a huge jump for us hunters in PA.. We got our foot in the door.. Dan
 
I'm personally relieved that they denied semi-autos for big game. I've sat in my tree stand during deer season wondering, "Are they even hitting anything," when I hear 3-5 shots from the same location, numerous times throughout the day.
 
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterI'm personally relieved that they denied semi-autos for big game. I've sat in my tree stand during deer season wondering, "Are they even hitting anything," when I hear 3-5 shots from the same location, numerous times throughout the day.
That many shots from same location multiple times a day. What does that have to do with semis.,,
 
Get yourself in the middle of a huge sounder of hogs with a bolt and an AR15. That AR will feel very warm and fuzzy. I was able to change mags and go again. All shots within 25 yards. My buddy and his beautiful bolt gun stood and watched.
 
Dan, I'm glad to have our foot in the door too. I'm just always baffled by the Game Commission logic. The Sunday hunting issue is another example. They cave in to pressure from the farmers that are against it. Then they want to attract today's youth towards hunting. Ever notice how the "mentored youth" program has seasons during the week? Kids are in school and can only hunt Saturday, unless they play hookie. Not a well thought out youth program IMO. Anyhow, I'm glad to see some progress. It's been a long time coming.
 
To sum it up, that sucks.

At least they allowed it for predators, but what's the logic for allowing it for predators and not big game? Must be the same logic Massachusetts uses to allow rifles for predators but not big game.

The Sunday hunting prohibition is one that needs to go nationwide.
 
Originally Posted By: dan158Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterI'm personally relieved that they denied semi-autos for big game. I've sat in my tree stand during deer season wondering, "Are they even hitting anything," when I hear 3-5 shots from the same location, numerous times throughout the day.
That many shots from same location multiple times a day. What does that have to do with semis.,,

If they're not taking their time to hit their mark on the first or second shot with a bolt, pump, or lever, how careless will the shots become when they can fire off 5-6 rounds, and reload in a matter of seconds, and get 5-6 more rounds off at a herd of deer running by?
 
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOriginally Posted By: dan158Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterI'm personally relieved that they denied semi-autos for big game. I've sat in my tree stand during deer season wondering, "Are they even hitting anything," when I hear 3-5 shots from the same location, numerous times throughout the day.
That many shots from same location multiple times a day. What does that have to do with semis.,,

If they're not taking their time to hit their mark on the first or second shot with a bolt, pump, or lever, how careless will the shots become when they can fire off 5-6 rounds, and reload in a matter of seconds, and get 5-6 more rounds off at a herd of deer running by?

Comon, really? We're not talking about travis haley

Maybe in Nebraska... you take 2-3 shots and miss in PA and your target is long gone. Way too thick.

It's not even about that anyway, people want the lighter recoil and customization the AR-15/AR-10 platform provides. Old timers want it how their grandad did it.
 
Originally Posted By: LARUEminatiOriginally Posted By: Flesh EaterOriginally Posted By: dan158Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterI'm personally relieved that they denied semi-autos for big game. I've sat in my tree stand during deer season wondering, "Are they even hitting anything," when I hear 3-5 shots from the same location, numerous times throughout the day.
That many shots from same location multiple times a day. What does that have to do with semis.,,

If they're not taking their time to hit their mark on the first or second shot with a bolt, pump, or lever, how careless will the shots become when they can fire off 5-6 rounds, and reload in a matter of seconds, and get 5-6 more rounds off at a herd of deer running by?

Comon, really? We're not talking about travis haley

Maybe in Nebraska... you take 2-3 shots and miss in PA and your target is long gone. Way too thick.

It's not even about that anyway, people want the lighter recoil and customization the AR-15/AR-10 platform provides. Old timers want it how their grandad did it.

I am not kidding. This year I sat in my stand and listened to someone setting across a creek bed from me take more than 15 shots in one day. He was on someone's property, and far too close for comfort, and it made me uneasy wondering exactly where his shots were going.

I have personally witnessed a group of hunters unload their pump rifles at a herd of deer running across a field. In the one instance there were ten deer. Two went down. One was a gut shot.

I'm 32, a land owner, own an AR-15 and vehemently opposed the bill and was one of the people who voiced my opinion of it. For every 5 responsible Pennsylvania hunters I've met there's 20-30 who have stories of carelessly flinging lead at running deer, or as some call, "pot shots." Sometimes they wound them and never recover, sometimes they get them. But, like they say, "If it's brown, it's down."
 
i am not a PA resident so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I do get the chance to hunt predators in pa every now and then and really do appreciate the ability to hunt them with a semi. as far as the big game restriction goes, I try to ask myself, "does the end justify the means" with just about every situation I find myself in that requires a decision to be made, In this case, would hunting big game with a semi hurt anything? what would it hurt? and what is the cost of the restriction? to me, it wouldn't hurt a thing. the same guys letting lead fly at a group of running deer will still be doing so. no added problem there. but on the flip side, a young hunter may be more comfortable shooting a semi with a little less recoil.

I fail to see who would be hurt by allowing semi rifles for big game. I am more partial to hunting with a bolt gun anyway and don't own one semi that I would want to hunt big game with but I would even think about taking that choice from another hunter. to me, these things are part of a bigger picture. every restriction passed on these types of firearms make it easier for the left to view them as something they are not.
 
Well said reaper4! All the people boo hooing about how "dangerous" it would be for big game is bothersome me. They sound like a bunch of anti's.... Every negative comment made about these "assault weapons" gives the anti's fuel for their fire. It's been years since crossbows were made legal in PA and people are still whining about that. Certain groups of hunters slamming another group of hunters because they don't like my choice or yours. We're all hunters! Where's the unity? I swear, half the people that complain sound just like a bunch of anti's. Flesh eater, you can rest easy, safely in your treestand. Deer don't fly.The people "flinging lead" aren't aiming up....
 
Originally Posted By: foxhoundWell said reaper4! All the people boo hooing about how "dangerous" it would be for big game is bothersome me. They sound like a bunch of anti's.... Every negative comment made about these "assault weapons" gives the anti's fuel for their fire. It's been years since crossbows were made legal in PA and people are still whining about that. Certain groups of hunters slamming another group of hunters because they don't like my choice or yours. We're all hunters! Where's the unity? I swear, half the people that complain sound just like a bunch of anti's. Flesh eater, you can rest easy, safely in your treestand. Deer don't fly.The people "flinging lead" aren't aiming up....

Great argument. "If you don't agree with me then you must be one of dem liberals!"

Thank you for relieving my trepidation of walking to and from my stand, to recover a downed animal, and oh...ricochet. Good thing those deer don't fly.

I must say, I find it amusing how much flack people get for having an opposing view. We all hunt, some of us own land, some of us deal with irresponsible trespassers every deer season, and irresponsible hunters, and yet we all don't get a fair say in a matter, because less than 64% of the hunting population want semi-auto rifles for big game. You're right, we should shut our mouths because we somehow aren't supporting hunting, or rather the 36% who want their way and criticize and call names to those who disagree.
 
Originally Posted By: reaper4I would be willing to bet that its more than 64%

More than 64% who oppose?

Pennsylvania archers aren't big fans of the Pennsylvania "orange army," and I would bet they made up a large portion of the opposition.
 
My point exactly. In PA gun hunters boo hoo because guys that use crossbows have an unfair advantage over them. Archery season is 6 weeks long during the rut no less. Us poor gun hunters don't stand a chance. The archers shoot all the trophy bucks and none are left come rifle season. Sound familiar? Pick up an issue of Pennsylvania outdoor news and there are many letters submitted by readers saying exactly that. The point is change is inevitable! Change is coming. Nothing stays the same. Semis for big game are right around the corner. Like it or not. I'm just tired of all the people that cry wolf... If my method of hunting is legal, what does anyone else care for? I'm not breaking any rules. Everyone should buy t with there legal weapon choice and just shut up about what the other guy is using. None of this is directed at you personally, flesh eater. Don't take it that way.
 
Originally Posted By: foxhoundMy point exactly. In PA gun hunters boo hoo because guys that use crossbows have an unfair advantage over them. Archery season is 6 weeks long during the rut no less. Us poor gun hunters don't stand a chance. The archers shoot all the trophy bucks and none are left come rifle season. Sound familiar? Pick up an issue of Pennsylvania outdoor news and there are many letters submitted by readers saying exactly that. The point is change is inevitable! Change is coming. Nothing stays the same. Semis for big game are right around the corner. Like it or not. I'm just tired of all the people that cry wolf... If my method of hunting is legal, what does anyone else care for? I'm not breaking any rules. Everyone should buy t with there legal weapon choice and just shut up about what the other guy is using. None of this is directed at you personally, flesh eater. Don't take it that way.

Debates get heated. No worries.

To be honest, I'm eyeing up a 24" upper for predator hunting. Big game gives me pause because of my personal experience with Pennsylvania hunters, and the amount of hunters (estimated 20 hunters per 1 square mile). Directly in my vicinity is a land owner with 90 acres, who lets 9 guys deer hunt his land, and another with 60 acres who let 7 people deer hunt his land. Then there are 289 acres above me that everyone and their brother hunt. It's par for the course that each plot of land near me will have a minimum of 2-5 hunters per every 40 acres...apparently all missing more than hitting when they shoot. With this experience it's hard to say, yep, give them the AR15. Has my experience skewerd my view? Definitely. Is it unjust? Perhaps, but it's something that directly affects me.
 
Reaper, I find that PA is always last to adopt anything new.... Not sure why.... Flesh Eater, I can understand your feelings if you're overrun with hunters. I used to say that rifle season sucked, because I would get into my spot early. Then dawn would break, only to find myself surrounded by the orange army!!! Sounds like you're having a similar experience. I moved to a different area three years ago. I'm strictly hunting game land now days. As strange as it sounds, the game lands I hunt have very little hunters. During archery season, I only know of one other guy that hunts there. We jokingly call it our "hunting preserve" When they have the overlap with junior/senior rifle for doe, there may be one or two extra vehicles there. Rifle season doesn't show much traffic either. Perhaps the Orange army phenomenon is regional....
 
Back
Top