varminter .223
Well-known member
Finished my Stoner tube build this morning. I should be able to give a factory 55 ammo report tomorrow.
.22 nosler
- Thread starter bc83
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steve garrett
Active member
Gls do you have a BHW nosler barrel incoming?
varminter .223
Well-known member
After dialing the gas block which began locking the bolt back at 2 turns out I gave it another half and shot 3 3 shot groups while zeroing and a 5 shot groups with the factory 55 bt's. The first 2 groups each had 2 touching and one stray. One of the strays .75 low and the other 1.5" right. The 3Rd group put three at .75" and the last group of 5 shot 3 touching then the 4th a flyer 1.5" high and right and the 5th and inch high and right. I don't understand two or three touching then the wild ones. Some brass had no swipe to speak of and some had a definite ejector hole mark.
Good thing the dies are on the way.
Good thing the dies are on the way.
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Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: yotehunter243What kind of speech does the 22x68 shoot the 77gr vs. The 22Nosler?
I looked at my 77 data that involved only two bullets and two powders. With CFE 223 I shot 2865 at 29.0 in 70 degree weather. The same load from Nosler, shooting 39.5 and 28.5 would be about 2908. Mine wasn't showing any pressure. I was more interested in the light bullets for PD's. Component/atmoshperic variation may be at play.
Ritch shot some 55's using 31.3 CFE Rem 7 1/2's and this was what the case heads looked like:
Not good with the swipes evident at their mid level loadings. Remember that while the head is 223 it still gets the bolt thrust of the 6.8/HAGAR sized case, Unlike a 223 at XXX pressure you will see more brass hammering thanks to that little bit of physics on the Nosler.
I have not 55's in mine but I have shot 50's using 33 of CFE getting 3553. The 55's from Nosler at 33 show 3518. CFE was not my powder choice on the 50's and I ended up using 31.5 of RL15 at 3734. Nosler with a 55 shooting of 31.5 RL15 shows 3437. The 50's are like an atom bomb when they hit a PD.
The 22X6.8 is set up to hit the lands early and can be reached at standard magazine length less than 2.260. Ritch has pressure tested all my loads and on the 50's I could have, and do, gone higher with a nice cushion. No brass deformation on them and the pockets are nce and tight after half a dozen firings.
Greg
My 204 left marks like that also on nosler brass with a mild load.. Is the brass to soft?? The primers don't look flat.. Dan
I looked at my 77 data that involved only two bullets and two powders. With CFE 223 I shot 2865 at 29.0 in 70 degree weather. The same load from Nosler, shooting 39.5 and 28.5 would be about 2908. Mine wasn't showing any pressure. I was more interested in the light bullets for PD's. Component/atmoshperic variation may be at play.
Ritch shot some 55's using 31.3 CFE Rem 7 1/2's and this was what the case heads looked like:
Not good with the swipes evident at their mid level loadings. Remember that while the head is 223 it still gets the bolt thrust of the 6.8/HAGAR sized case, Unlike a 223 at XXX pressure you will see more brass hammering thanks to that little bit of physics on the Nosler.
I have not 55's in mine but I have shot 50's using 33 of CFE getting 3553. The 55's from Nosler at 33 show 3518. CFE was not my powder choice on the 50's and I ended up using 31.5 of RL15 at 3734. Nosler with a 55 shooting of 31.5 RL15 shows 3437. The 50's are like an atom bomb when they hit a PD.
The 22X6.8 is set up to hit the lands early and can be reached at standard magazine length less than 2.260. Ritch has pressure tested all my loads and on the 50's I could have, and do, gone higher with a nice cushion. No brass deformation on them and the pockets are nce and tight after half a dozen firings.
Greg
My 204 left marks like that also on nosler brass with a mild load.. Is the brass to soft?? The primers don't look flat.. Dan
Originally Posted By: dan158[/quote]
My 204 left marks like that also on nosler brass with a mild load.. Is the brass to soft?? The primers don't look flat.. Dan
Yes the brass is very soft. The rim bending and swipes like this will cause an early demise on the brass. If you can turn the gas down it will help but quite simply even in a bolt gun we will see extrusion into the ejector holes and swipes will be seen. The rims won't bend in a bolt but but all and all it is not good. You are right those loads are fine. Less than 51,000 PSI if my calculations are right. MA is 55,000 so at this level and that damage it is not good.
The single source brass problem will be a curse on this one and I don't look to see my local stores to carry the factory ammo anytime soon.
I have quite a few more loads ready to go ready to try against the 22X6.8 and a hot loaded 556. two done various powder combinations using the 50 Nosler and the 77 Nosler. I even have proof LOL
I hope to shoot it on Friday as I've been fighting life the past week with sick people, sick dogs and new kitties.
Greg
My 204 left marks like that also on nosler brass with a mild load.. Is the brass to soft?? The primers don't look flat.. Dan
Yes the brass is very soft. The rim bending and swipes like this will cause an early demise on the brass. If you can turn the gas down it will help but quite simply even in a bolt gun we will see extrusion into the ejector holes and swipes will be seen. The rims won't bend in a bolt but but all and all it is not good. You are right those loads are fine. Less than 51,000 PSI if my calculations are right. MA is 55,000 so at this level and that damage it is not good.
The single source brass problem will be a curse on this one and I don't look to see my local stores to carry the factory ammo anytime soon.
I have quite a few more loads ready to go ready to try against the 22X6.8 and a hot loaded 556. two done various powder combinations using the 50 Nosler and the 77 Nosler. I even have proof LOL
I hope to shoot it on Friday as I've been fighting life the past week with sick people, sick dogs and new kitties.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
I could care less about brass life but I am very interested in a barrel that will hold .750 or better groups. I am very interested in your results.
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I could care less about brass life but I am very interested in a barrel that will hold .750 or better groups. I am very interested in your results.
I will almost guarantee that without a lot of work or luck these STONER barrels will not deliver. If I don't find something this week I would bet my hat on it.
Personally the 18" tube neuters this one badly. That's why I loaded up some top end 556 data to see how they stack up with the Nosler comparisons. Preliminary test show there is just nothing there to write home about.
If you crank the pressures up you will get some results that are barely acceptable but to do that I think you will exceed their recommended and very low pressure levels. This rebated rim is taking the head thrust of the full size 6.8 and that is not helping matters along with the soft brass.
Greg
I will almost guarantee that without a lot of work or luck these STONER barrels will not deliver. If I don't find something this week I would bet my hat on it.
Personally the 18" tube neuters this one badly. That's why I loaded up some top end 556 data to see how they stack up with the Nosler comparisons. Preliminary test show there is just nothing there to write home about.
If you crank the pressures up you will get some results that are barely acceptable but to do that I think you will exceed their recommended and very low pressure levels. This rebated rim is taking the head thrust of the full size 6.8 and that is not helping matters along with the soft brass.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: varminter .223I could care less about brass life but I am very interested in a barrel that will hold .750 or better groups. I am very interested in your results.
I will almost guarantee that without a lot of work or luck these STONER barrels will not deliver. If I don't find something this week I would bet my hat on it.
Personally the 18" tube neuters this one badly. That's why I loaded up some top end 556 data to see how they stack up with the Nosler comparisons. Preliminary test show there is just nothing there to write home about.
If you crank the pressures up you will get some results that are barely acceptable but to do that I think you will exceed their recommended and very low pressure levels. This rebated rim is taking the head thrust of the full size 6.8 and that is not helping matters along with the soft brass.
Greg
I agree I have no idea what they were thinking making 18" tubes. I want to try an aftermarket 24". Did you say you had a bhw ordered? When I get a 6x6.8 going I probably will care less about this 22 Nosler though. I am on pins and needles waiting for the 6x6.8!
I will almost guarantee that without a lot of work or luck these STONER barrels will not deliver. If I don't find something this week I would bet my hat on it.
Personally the 18" tube neuters this one badly. That's why I loaded up some top end 556 data to see how they stack up with the Nosler comparisons. Preliminary test show there is just nothing there to write home about.
If you crank the pressures up you will get some results that are barely acceptable but to do that I think you will exceed their recommended and very low pressure levels. This rebated rim is taking the head thrust of the full size 6.8 and that is not helping matters along with the soft brass.
Greg
I agree I have no idea what they were thinking making 18" tubes. I want to try an aftermarket 24". Did you say you had a bhw ordered? When I get a 6x6.8 going I probably will care less about this 22 Nosler though. I am on pins and needles waiting for the 6x6.8!
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Originally Posted By: tjromo84so whats the deal with the ar stoner barrels? any accuracy reports yet?
for the price I might just get one to get by until they are off backorder.
With rare instances they suck. Accuracy so far for me is abysmal as I documented earlier. The barrels are overgassed and with the soft brass it is not good. With the 18"tube you might as well shoot a hot 556 from what I am seeing.
Greg
for the price I might just get one to get by until they are off backorder.
With rare instances they suck. Accuracy so far for me is abysmal as I documented earlier. The barrels are overgassed and with the soft brass it is not good. With the 18"tube you might as well shoot a hot 556 from what I am seeing.
Greg
Dirty Hippie
New member
Here is my last target with my only accurate load. It's a 13 shot group because that's all the bullets I had left. I feel the load is plenty accurate. I don't think the barrel is good or bad, it is a $100 barrel, and performs as such. I feel the 22 Nosler as cartridge is not worth the trouble however. That 50 grain load below chrono's at 3100 FPS. Which can be achieved with less powder in a .223. The brass is unable to support higher pressures to get the velocities claimed by Nosler. If this caliber using more powder cannot out perform a .223 (without destroying the brass) what purpose does it serve? For me this project has been fun but unproductive. This barrel will be replaced by something else soon. Likely a 22x6.8.
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yotekiller47
Member
Originally Posted By: Redleg84$100 barrels aren't worth the trouble, if I remember correctly the cheap Stoner barrels in 223 are pretty bad too I believe that. If you want quality you will have to pay for it. I've tried many times to get by on the cheap and always ended up mad at myself for doing it. It is better to save your money and get what you want than buy a bargain and regret it later. I've been following the Nosler thread and it doesn't look like very many people like this cartridge or its accuracy. Could be wrong, but that's just my observation.
I'm new to the site and also new to the AR platform. I've been shooting .22 centerfires in bolt actions for 40 years and reloading that long also. This new Nosler caught my eye and got me thinking I should build an AR varminter. After reading here I have some questions.
Greg, I realize that nosler is soft brass, as most Lapua brass is, it is also very good brass. Why do you think this new caliber will be limited to only the one brass supplier? It didn't take long for other manufactures to make brass and ammo in other factory introduced calibers, .204 Ruger being a fine example. Also, is it not based on 6.8 SPC brass so the rebated head thing is the same on the 22x6.8? and will it be a caliber worth pursuing after good manufactures get some good barrels and uppers on the market, or just forget it and build something else? as far as velocity, from what I see in the load data out so far they used a 24" test barrel to make the load data and if you look up load data with a 24" test barrel in .223 the nosler posted velocity is about 300 fps. better. Now before everybody get's on me about that, I too have a chrono and have for years. It's been very few calibers and very few bullet weights that I have ever matched posted velocity for a given load in real life. So, I am interested in following posts on this 22 nosler to see how it plays out over the coming months.
Greg, I realize that nosler is soft brass, as most Lapua brass is, it is also very good brass. Why do you think this new caliber will be limited to only the one brass supplier? It didn't take long for other manufactures to make brass and ammo in other factory introduced calibers, .204 Ruger being a fine example. Also, is it not based on 6.8 SPC brass so the rebated head thing is the same on the 22x6.8? and will it be a caliber worth pursuing after good manufactures get some good barrels and uppers on the market, or just forget it and build something else? as far as velocity, from what I see in the load data out so far they used a 24" test barrel to make the load data and if you look up load data with a 24" test barrel in .223 the nosler posted velocity is about 300 fps. better. Now before everybody get's on me about that, I too have a chrono and have for years. It's been very few calibers and very few bullet weights that I have ever matched posted velocity for a given load in real life. So, I am interested in following posts on this 22 nosler to see how it plays out over the coming months.
Originally Posted By: hiwaymanI'm new to the site and also new to the AR platform. I've been shooting .22 centerfires in bolt actions for 40 years and reloading that long also. This new Nosler caught my eye and got me thinking I should build an AR varminter. After reading here I have some questions.
Greg, I realize that nosler is soft brass, as most Lapua brass is, it is also very good brass. Why do you think this new caliber will be limited to only the one brass supplier? It didn't take long for other manufactures to make brass and ammo in other factory introduced calibers, .204 Ruger being a fine example. Also, is it not based on 6.8 SPC brass so the rebated head thing is the same on the 22x6.8? and will it be a caliber worth pursuing after good manufactures get some good barrels and uppers on the market, or just forget it and build something else? as far as velocity, from what I see in the load data out so far they used a 24" test barrel to make the load data and if you look up load data with a 24" test barrel in .223 the nosler posted velocity is about 300 fps. better. Now before everybody get's on me about that, I too have a chrono and have for years. It's been very few calibers and very few bullet weights that I have ever matched posted velocity for a given load in real life. So, I am interested in following posts on this 22 nosler to see how it plays out over the coming months.
Here are my thoughts. The brass is made by Nosler for the Nosler. It is not made by Lapua. It is SOFT. Lapua is much harder taking multiple firings and showing no discernable bad traits of head abuse from ejectors and extractors. The Nosler is running at 55,000 MAX and we are already seeing terrible brass abuse at those levels. Lapua loaded up hot at 55,000 plus in some of my wildcats isn’t budging and has over a dozen firings on many of them.
No one is producing any Nosler cartridge brass other than Nosler. Norma was making them some but this time no one outside is producing brass or ammunition for any of the new wonderkin from them. You won’t be seeing Winchester or Remington stamped 22 Nosler brass/ammunition hitting the shelves in my opinion ever. The 204 Ruger was introduced by multiple rifle companies all close together. No one is jumping on the band wagon from the gun manufacturers AFAIK.
The Nosler is loosely based on the HAGAR case being longer than the 6.8 it is not quite as long as the HAGAR, who only has Hornady making brass for it BTW, yet longer than the 6.8 at 45 MM vs. the 43 of the 6.8. The 22X6.8 is a full size head and is not rebated. Rebated rims give less purchase for the extractor in this case and rim bending is being noted in many instances unlike the 22X6.8 that is as close as mot get to it showing no rim damage or swiping at pressures in the 57,000 range. I am supposed to get a barrel or two that will be a quality product but the wait is killing me. The cartridge in a good barrel will surely shoot but the brass quality would kill it for me. Way too many ways like a 22X6.8 or a 22 LBC to beat it with better brass and longer life added to sweeten the pot.
Nosler 22 24” barrels are not out in the wild yet. What we have seen listed as Nosler 18” data is not being met at this time from anyone I have seen post up. The velocities seen in the 18” tube are being closely paralleled with a 223 load in my hands and that is with 223 pressure data. Once I step up to true NATO pressures with published data from Accurate Arms I have no doubt the velocities will be within spitting distance and MAY be even better than the Nosler.
I happen to have a 24” 556 I’ll shoot along with an 18” 556. They will be stoked with the same bullets loaded to NATO pressure levels so I am very interested in it. I also loaded same same charges in the 22X6.8, with a 24” tube, as the Nosler 22 that should match or exceed the Nosler as it will have about one grain les of capacity so pressures will be a bit higher. I actually have pressure levels on the 22X6. So I know where I set with those.
This case has generated more content than any in a long long time. It’s a mouse trap that will drain pocket books and not gain much IMHO but then I never was one to go the easy way in prison. Just ask my coworkers. LOL We shall see what we shall see.
Greg
Greg, I realize that nosler is soft brass, as most Lapua brass is, it is also very good brass. Why do you think this new caliber will be limited to only the one brass supplier? It didn't take long for other manufactures to make brass and ammo in other factory introduced calibers, .204 Ruger being a fine example. Also, is it not based on 6.8 SPC brass so the rebated head thing is the same on the 22x6.8? and will it be a caliber worth pursuing after good manufactures get some good barrels and uppers on the market, or just forget it and build something else? as far as velocity, from what I see in the load data out so far they used a 24" test barrel to make the load data and if you look up load data with a 24" test barrel in .223 the nosler posted velocity is about 300 fps. better. Now before everybody get's on me about that, I too have a chrono and have for years. It's been very few calibers and very few bullet weights that I have ever matched posted velocity for a given load in real life. So, I am interested in following posts on this 22 nosler to see how it plays out over the coming months.
Here are my thoughts. The brass is made by Nosler for the Nosler. It is not made by Lapua. It is SOFT. Lapua is much harder taking multiple firings and showing no discernable bad traits of head abuse from ejectors and extractors. The Nosler is running at 55,000 MAX and we are already seeing terrible brass abuse at those levels. Lapua loaded up hot at 55,000 plus in some of my wildcats isn’t budging and has over a dozen firings on many of them.
No one is producing any Nosler cartridge brass other than Nosler. Norma was making them some but this time no one outside is producing brass or ammunition for any of the new wonderkin from them. You won’t be seeing Winchester or Remington stamped 22 Nosler brass/ammunition hitting the shelves in my opinion ever. The 204 Ruger was introduced by multiple rifle companies all close together. No one is jumping on the band wagon from the gun manufacturers AFAIK.
The Nosler is loosely based on the HAGAR case being longer than the 6.8 it is not quite as long as the HAGAR, who only has Hornady making brass for it BTW, yet longer than the 6.8 at 45 MM vs. the 43 of the 6.8. The 22X6.8 is a full size head and is not rebated. Rebated rims give less purchase for the extractor in this case and rim bending is being noted in many instances unlike the 22X6.8 that is as close as mot get to it showing no rim damage or swiping at pressures in the 57,000 range. I am supposed to get a barrel or two that will be a quality product but the wait is killing me. The cartridge in a good barrel will surely shoot but the brass quality would kill it for me. Way too many ways like a 22X6.8 or a 22 LBC to beat it with better brass and longer life added to sweeten the pot.
Nosler 22 24” barrels are not out in the wild yet. What we have seen listed as Nosler 18” data is not being met at this time from anyone I have seen post up. The velocities seen in the 18” tube are being closely paralleled with a 223 load in my hands and that is with 223 pressure data. Once I step up to true NATO pressures with published data from Accurate Arms I have no doubt the velocities will be within spitting distance and MAY be even better than the Nosler.
I happen to have a 24” 556 I’ll shoot along with an 18” 556. They will be stoked with the same bullets loaded to NATO pressure levels so I am very interested in it. I also loaded same same charges in the 22X6.8, with a 24” tube, as the Nosler 22 that should match or exceed the Nosler as it will have about one grain les of capacity so pressures will be a bit higher. I actually have pressure levels on the 22X6. So I know where I set with those.
This case has generated more content than any in a long long time. It’s a mouse trap that will drain pocket books and not gain much IMHO but then I never was one to go the easy way in prison. Just ask my coworkers. LOL We shall see what we shall see.
Greg
steve garrett
Active member
nosler is still the only one offering 26 nosler brass. To get a real step up I wish someone would prefect a way for a case at least the size of the BR case. use a standard .473 case head, have the case hold north of 40 grains water. that would mean we have something with the ability to really get it done. have brass and plug and play parts. that is what I want. magazines, multiple brass sources, BHW barrels ready to order, and factory ammo.
Originally Posted By: hiwaymanThanks Greg. That clears up some things. Maybe I"ll just have to start accumulating parts to build a 22x6.8 Here I read all the nosler hipe and thought I could have a semi auto close to my .22-250 bolt gun LOL.
I bought the rig just so I could speak with facts. Too many cartridges sold because the gun scribes and the Walter Mittyys get involved and you know if you say it enough and hear it enough it must be true. Groups, speeds and hands on experience on a new cartridge roll out are rarely this quick.
I've always questioned the Stoner badged barrels and human psychology seems to be that if you buy a turkey barrel from anyone most guys will not admit it in print. Statistics seem to deny the possibility that those $100.00 are all hummers. Sure one or two but not to the degree that the keyboard snipers report. Not that I know much about barrels or tiny groups.
Greg
I bought the rig just so I could speak with facts. Too many cartridges sold because the gun scribes and the Walter Mittyys get involved and you know if you say it enough and hear it enough it must be true. Groups, speeds and hands on experience on a new cartridge roll out are rarely this quick.
I've always questioned the Stoner badged barrels and human psychology seems to be that if you buy a turkey barrel from anyone most guys will not admit it in print. Statistics seem to deny the possibility that those $100.00 are all hummers. Sure one or two but not to the degree that the keyboard snipers report. Not that I know much about barrels or tiny groups.
Greg