.221 Fireball

OKRattler

Well-known member
Who uses one for predator huntin and how well does it do when it comes to killing them? I'm looking for an all around rifle. Not that I'll use it much for fox unless I'm in West Texas but how bad does it tear them up as well as bobcats? I know that it's pretty much impossible to get a caliber that's not enough for coyotes but great for foxes or too much for foxes and works great for coyotes but I'm interested in this caliber or any other caliber that would do just as good if not better. But mainly interested in hearing about the .221 since I've never even seen one in person.
 
I used one in a Remington about 10 years ago. It did fine to about 200 yds or so. Maybe 85-90% of a .223 and a bit more than a hornet.
It did a good job and I liked it. Problem for me it was not popular enough and I don't reload.
Ammo was very limited locally, rifles in that caliber were scarce, and comparable stuff was readily available. At some point it will be available chambered in a popular trouble free rifle but may never be easy to find for a non reloader.
 
I figured that would be one downfall of that caliber although I could reload if I had to. But having readily available ammo is never a bad thing. So I assume the same could be said about the .19 Badger or 218 Bee which I've done a little research on too. Which I figured would be fun calibers and something a little different to own.

But in reality would I be gaining that much to justify not buying a .22 Hornet instead and have a much more practical rifle? That's something I've thought about also.
 
Hey Rattler

I'm a big fan of the the little Furball. I have a CZ 527 American in .221 and I plan on never getting rid of it. Just too much love.

But if I had to shoot nothing but factory all the time I would have gotten rid if it a long time ago. Just not enough variety. I tried some factory R-P in mine a few years back (I got a partial box at a gunshow for cheap) and they shot pretty crummy 100 yard groups. But if you handload you can make it sing real purty. How does 1/2" FIVE shot groups at over 3500 fps with a 40 grain bullet sound to you?

Brass is not hard to find like it was and can be made from .223 easily too if you want. I take mine with me every year when I go prairie dog hunting and it just makes me giggle how much fun it is. A 40 grain Vmax out a .221 will just vaporize a range rat at further than you think.

I've shot mine to the point that the accuracy finally started dropping off somewhat. I sent it off back in November to have a new 24" varmint weight barrel put on it. I should get it back next week or the week after. I can hardly wait. I miss my baby. Miss it bad.
 
I have a 221, 22 hornet, and a 204 all in cz 527s the 204 is a varmit model, the 221 will be the last one I will sell its way more gun than the hornet easy to get it to shoot than the hornet, when I bought the gun I bought 100 brass used 60 and well over 700 shots fired very easy on brass still using that brass. Called in a pile of coyotes and only lost one that was shooter error took a shot l knew better. Keep your shots at 200 on coyotes I did shoot one at about 275 it was standing in a open field and I had a good rest she dropped where she stood. Not sure I have ever seen a box of factory ammo in my area but I reload all my ammo so not a deal breaker for me.
 
Thanks for the great information guys. Does Nosler not load .221 Fireball ammunition still in their Custom line? I looked up some ammunition options earlier and came across some of that but didn't know if it's still available. Although I do have access to everything I need to reload so it's not a big deal if not.

I was interested in the CZ myself and that's most likely what I would get if I do end up buying one.
 
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A rifle that is deadly accurate at 200 yards is what I need. In West Texas I'd say that's probably about the furthest I'd ever have to shoot at night. Most of the time probably not even that far. Plenty of punch to kill a coyote is good. But what concerns me a little is what a fox would look like after getting hit. From the sounds of it,it could be messy.

But of course I'll use it here as well for bobcats and coyotes and the occasional raccoon or badger. Depending on its ability to not tear up fur. This isn't really a must have rifle but then again I don't know that I have any that I absolutely needed. But my poor .223 needs a break. So that's my excuse for wanting this one. If I don't at least have an excuse I can't buy it. It really doesn't even have to be a good excuse. That's the best one I can come up with.
 
I want to go a bit further and say this: The .221 just may be the most unappreciated varmint cartridge there is. There. I said it.

Look- it takes but 15-16 grains of powder to reach speeds of 3500 fps or beyond. It is more often than not phenomenally accurate with the right bullet, and kills small whiskered rodents at ranges only slightly shy of cartridges that uses twice as much powder. The barrel stays cooler longer, your $30 a can of power last twice as long and the animals are just as dead. Now then! Am I going to pick up my Furball for a 500 shot and leave my .220 Swift in the truck? Not on your life! But 90% or more what I have shot with my Swift I could have shot with the Furball. I would not try a 500 yarder with my .221 no. A 450 with no wind yes. And I shoot many less than 450 yards than above. 10 times as many. That pretty much spells it out dont it? I could take out a nice fresh .221 with good glass on it and take 95% with my Swift with even better glass on it. Think about that. Keep your distances sane and hope for days with light wind and you will get a bajillion of them. I sure hope to in a few months. And if I do you can bet that all of you will hear about too. I promise that.
 
Basically, with 1680, LilGun, or possibly the new CFEBLK you will be able to load your Fireball to near equal performance of your 223 with 40 grainers and much less powder. However, if a heavier, less frangible bullet is required for your shots on fur, the larger cased 223 gains the velocity advantage. The Nosler 40 grain ballistic tip may be a good option to try as this bullet seems to be a bit more fur friendly than the v max.
 
If you don't reload, I would pass. I have a slightly modified LVSF which I really like. I use 1680 powder and Sierra 40gr HP bullets. They work great with minimal recoil and less blast. They don't give up much to a 223. The 223 is probably a better platform for 50gr bullets and if you don't reload.

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Most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned was a .221. And it was a sporter. Fed it RL7 w/40 Vmax.

Killed a few coyote with it, not a whole bunch. That's not where it really shined. Picture of it with some though.

ClassicHowl2Yotes.jpg



Ordered two of those .221 Classics when they were announced. They were late in arriving by almost a year. But, got two of them at the same time when they did. Pulled the barrel off one and had it turned into a .17 Mach IV. So I had twins in .17 M4 and .221 FB.

Not that I didn't love that little Fireball. I did. And like I said, most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned, period. But, for coyote, I found that I much preferred the .17 Mach IV. So, since you're asking about coyote and not jackrabbit and ground squirrel and p-dog, which is where I think the .221 really shines, I thought it might be worth mentioning the .17 FB instead (factory version of the Mach IV).

I agree with Rusty though. Most under appreciated varmint cartridge. Never seen one that wasn't spooky accurate. Sips powder. Mild report. Pops varmints nicely. And I think Lapua even makes brass for it now? I made all mine out of IMI .223.

- DAA
 
I have two Fireballs. Haven't shot a 'yote yet with one, but I'd agree that 200 yards would be the max range on them. I prefer the longer 24" barrel over the 22 to wring almost-.223 speeds out of it; the report is a little quieter than a .223, but louder than a .22 Hornet, fwiw. There are now more loaded ammo options out there, too: besides the 50 gr. Remington stuff, Nosler sells two Varmageddons, plus some high-$ "Custom Loaded" 40 gr. NBT rounds (I actually bought some of it on sale at Midway for the Nosler brass when components were scarce and it shot almost as well as handloads through my Cooper, not so good in the LVSF.) Also, I believe The Hunting Shack also still sells loaded .221 rounds with several different bullet weights/brands.
 
Awesome stuff guys. I saw those Nosler hollowpoints and thought that's probably going to be my go to factory load if I go ahead and get one.

DAA,I actually gave the .17 Fireball some thought and it very well could be the better of the two. I just figured maybe the .221 was better for predators vs. varmints since it shoots a little heavier bullet and all that good stuff. But not having any experience with either caliber I was basically just guessing. I suppose with the right bullet in it either one has potential to thump a coyote. The .17FB would be the more fur friendly caliber out of the two I would imagine. The thing I worried about with that option is how a small,high velocity,frangible bullet would perform on coyotes and bobcats.
 
Bullet selection is vitally important for coyote with either the .221 or the .17 FB case.

I honestly never tried to optimize my .221 for coyote. The load I worked up for it was intended for varmints and the 40 Vmax was great. It wasn't ideal for coyote. It worked, but if I had been serious about using the .221 on coyote I'd have tried some different bullets.

In the .17, I use the old long discontinued Berger Match. Or, more recently, I've used Nagel 25's. A non plastic tipped 25 with a tight meplat (small hollow point opening) is the way to go for coyote with the .17 FB/Mach IV, in my opinion.

Like I said, I didn't try to make my .221 into a coyote rifle. With the 40 Vmax it was an adequate 200 yard coyote rifle. The Mach IV, with good 25's like the Nagel, is a solid 250 yard performer, giving good penetration and energy transfer without shoulder splash.

- DAA
 
I used the same 25gr Berger match in my 17 Mach IV. Vic C. (one of the two original "Coyote God's")
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got me to try the Hornady 25gr HP's and they work great too, IMO. I don't think I ever shot one over 150 yards with the 17 M4. I did take one with the regular ole CZ 17 Rem out to 325 yards.
 
Having choices makes things difficult.lol

I think what I'll do is get a .221 to start out with then maybe sometime further down the road I'll get a .17 Fireball to go with it is what I'll probably end up doing. I haven't really had anyone trying to talk me out of one so far so I might as well see what all the fuss is about.
 
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Well it's a done deal now. I'll be the owner of a CZ527 .221 Fireball here before long. Seen a big bobcat this evening so he was just in time. Or in the wrong spot at the wrong time. However you want to look at it. If he'll just stay right in that general area I'll be shootin him with it.
 
Wonderful, Rattler!

I think that the CZ American and the cute Furball were made for each other. I bet that you will too.
 
I'm excited to get it and start busting some varmints. All you guys talking it up made my decision pretty easy. I'm not saying anyone twisted my arm but you definitely made it sound too good to pass up. So I thought what the heck,I'll get me one.

I plan on topping it with a Leupold VX2 or a Redfield of some kind. I have a feeling that big bobcat I saw today is gonna find out what that Fireball business is all about before this month is over.
 
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