Mostly we're over gunned!

wolftrapper

wolftrapper

New member
Okay, the results are in.

I got 29 responses to my question of the average distance for shooting called coyotes.

It comes out to under 89 yards.

Now, if you are stalking, or if you just like the sniper type of shooting, you need a 22 250 or whatever. But if you are shooting coyotes for selling fur, you need a caliber that is effective to about 150 yards, and won't blow holes big in them. I understand that occasionally there will be a coyote that "hangs up" at 250, but how often does that really happen? Plus, there are probably times that said coyote would come closer, if not shot. As range increases, the chance of a miss, or worse, of wounding, becomes more likely too. Which results in a crippled, or well educated coyote.


I usually carry a .222 Remington, but even that can tear up a pelt. My .22 Hornet, on the other hand, is very forgiving, and rarely puts much of a hole in a coyote, plus, if a fox or bobcat shows up, I can kill it and still have something to skin.

The biggest reason I opt for the .222, is that it is the more accurate of the two. I don't think it has as much to do with the caliber, as the the rifles themselves. (make/model).

If you are just killin' coyotes, with no intention of salvaging fur, by all means, use whatever you shoot well!

I have been arguing with myself concerning this issue for a couple of years now.

Thanks to those of you who provided input.
 
I really cannot see the "more accurate" making any difference. You state that the average called coyote is 89 yards, the difference in accuracy from one caliber to another is going to be very minimal at that range, certainly not enough to make a difference in whether a coyote is killed or not.

I used to take out different calibers depending on where I was hunting and what the expected ranges would be. But then I got serious about it and stuck with one rifle, a 223. Nearly every fox I have killed was with a 223, and 90% of my coyotes, and almost all of my bobcats. Even at 50 yards, a broadside on a fox only resulted in a nickel sized exit, with a 55gr vmax. I opened up one fox, but that was because of a poorly placed shot, same with bobcats and those were NOT vmax.

If I were exclusively hunting fox or bobcats I would use a 17 hornet or something with slightly more velocity. But, I mostly hunt coyotes. With a 22-250 using 55gr vmax, there is an entrance hole that is hard to find, and almost always no exit. With a 223 using the same bullet, I almost never get exit holes, i only get exits with shots well under 100 yards and broadside. But, most coyotes that close are shot front on, never an exit and very difficult to find the entrance.

It is the same old problem, someone shoots a handful of coyotes and decides their rifle is too big, or not big enough depending on the results. Bullet placement is huge as is bullet choice, but sometimes people are using poor bullets AND making poor hits.

The new guys can ask all the questions they want, "what is the best bullet for coyotes", "what is the best caliber for coyotes", or "I used what everyone suggested and still lost the coyote, what gives?". The best thing a person can do is get out there and LEARN from their own experience. Take some of what is written here, some is good, some is not, and go out and use it. Until you have killed several dozen coyotes, the evidence is anecdotal. Keep track of the shot distance, the angle of the coyote, where the bullet actually hit, and the results after the shot, after a bunch of coyotes, you will finally have good data that will tell YOU something.

I have been hunting coyotes for 17 years, I have tried numerous bullets, I have used a few calibers, and I have a system that works. MY results work for me, I average about 25 coyotes per year, and I sell fur. I do not hunt from March through September, and some hides get tossed because of quality, not because of bullet holes. Once in a while I will make a poor hit, that is the ONLY reason a hide gets tossed other than just being low quality fur.

I run a 223 with a 55gr vmax, I have killed coyotes from 7 yards to 612yards with that. But, I am not a velocity freak, even with a 24" barrel, I am only running 3050fps. For 100 yards to 300 yards, that velocity is perfect, closer than that it is fast, beyond that it still works, but more wouldn't hurt.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724I really cannot see the "more accurate" making any difference. You state that the average called coyote is 89 yards, the difference in accuracy from one caliber to another is going to be very minimal at that range, certainly not enough to make a difference in whether a coyote is killed or not.

I used to take out different calibers depending on where I was hunting and what the expected ranges would be. But then I got serious about it and stuck with one rifle, a 223. Nearly every fox I have killed was with a 223, and 90% of my coyotes, and almost all of my bobcats. Even at 50 yards, a broadside on a fox only resulted in a nickel sized exit, with a 55gr vmax. I opened up one fox, but that was because of a poorly placed shot, same with bobcats and those were NOT vmax.

If I were exclusively hunting fox or bobcats I would use a 17 hornet or something with slightly more velocity. But, I mostly hunt coyotes. With a 22-250 using 55gr vmax, there is an entrance hole that is hard to find, and almost always no exit. With a 223 using the same bullet, I almost never get exit holes, i only get exits with shots well under 100 yards and broadside. But, most coyotes that close are shot front on, never an exit and very difficult to find the entrance.

It is the same old problem, someone shoots a handful of coyotes and decides their rifle is too big, or not big enough depending on the results. Bullet placement is huge as is bullet choice, but sometimes people are using poor bullets AND making poor hits.

The new guys can ask all the questions they want, "what is the best bullet for coyotes", "what is the best caliber for coyotes", or "I used what everyone suggested and still lost the coyote, what gives?". The best thing a person can do is get out there and LEARN from their own experience. Take some of what is written here, some is good, some is not, and go out and use it. Until you have killed several dozen coyotes, the evidence is anecdotal. Keep track of the shot distance, the angle of the coyote, where the bullet actually hit, and the results after the shot, after a bunch of coyotes, you will finally have good data that will tell YOU something.

I have been hunting coyotes for 17 years, I have tried numerous bullets, I have used a few calibers, and I have a system that works. MY results work for me, I average about 25 coyotes per year, and I sell fur. I do not hunt from March through September, and some hides get tossed because of quality, not because of bullet holes. Once in a while I will make a poor hit, that is the ONLY reason a hide gets tossed other than just being low quality fur.

I run a 223 with a 55gr vmax, I have killed coyotes from 7 yards to 612yards with that. But, I am not a velocity freak, even with a 24" barrel, I am only running 3050fps. For 100 yards to 300 yards, that velocity is perfect, closer than that it is fast, beyond that it still works, but more wouldn't hurt.

All good input.


I am not inexperienced, and also take around 25 coyotes a year, but I am always looking to improve.

The accuracy difference in my two rifles is insignificant at 80 yards, to be sure. Mostly, the Hornet is a shorter, lighter weight rifle, and just doesn't "settle" as well for me as the .222.

As far as vmax, I have had large entrance wounds in both calibers, leading me to go to soft points. Yes, a perfect shot placement on a facing coyote usually leaves no exit, but conversely, if that bullet happens to catch the underside of the jawline, the fur is gone. You may be a better shot than I am, but if you are on a hard charger under thirty yards on uneven ground, things shift fast. And you can't always make them stop.

Oh, yeah. I have been coyote hunting for fifty years...I just thought this might be an interesting topic for others, and food for thought.

To each his own.
 
WT, I think I have to agree with you for pelt hunting, but how few pelt hunters actually grace these pages. I could spend the rest of my days with a decent combo gun in 222 Rem/12ga with a 1-4x20mm scope and never be under gunned/scoped for predators. For me a 300 yard shot is a very long shot but very doable. Hitting a coyote off the sticks at 600 yrds would come under the heading of calculated luck and something I don't equip myself to do as wounding one at that range is just as likely and I'm a pretty fair shot off the sticks. Why equip myself with a 600 yard gun when most of my shots are a tenth of that and a 600 yard gun would make most of my shots far more difficult.

My first predator rifle was a Savage 19H in 22 Hornet w/Weaver K-2.5 and graduating to a Rem 600 in 223 in 1966 w/Weaver V-4.5 using a mildly loaded Herter's 50gr SP most likely in the high end 222 Rem range, I hunted pelts and did control work(mostly beaver and feral dogs) with it for nearly 30 yrs. Since those days I've had more free time to experiment with rifles and have killed coyotes with a lot of different cartridges from 22H to 6.5x58R. I have a couple of mild 6mm wildcats just for shooting lead-frees, I think that is going to be the way of the future and I don't want to be caught knashing my teeth because lead is gone but never miss a beat and be out hunting.

My goto guns for predator hunting right now are the 22-204 and 5.6x50R Mag(Rimmed 222 Rem Mag Improved) in a combo gun. I still take out the 6's and do pack the 22-250 if I'm headed out to the big open country but have yet to kill a coyote over 100 yards out there with it.
 
I don't feel overgunned. I feel like I have a very different set of needs. I could care less about skinning coyotes. I need them to drop stone dead whether shot in the chest, shoulder or hind end. All year last year I had two stands that were singles. The rest were 2 to 6 coyotes. You can't pick shots carefully and kill whole packs of them on a single stand.

I mostly hunt contests, and they don't pay any more for leaving tiny holes.

All this is said respectfully, of course.
 
I just wanted flat and fast to take out any thought process. I have never had any 22 cal. bullet ever blow a big hole. 6mm with 70 varmagedons.... yes big hole.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just wanted flat and fast to take out any thought process. I have never had any 22 cal. bullet ever blow a big hole. 6mm with 70 varmagedons.... yes big hole.


221 fireball 45 gr bullet and straight frontal shot.

 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just wanted flat and fast to take out any thought process. I have never had any 22 cal. bullet ever blow a big hole.

i have had 22 cal bullets blow holes big enough you could walk a dog and pony through. this was with .223 and 22-250. many, many different bullet types. just depends on how and where they were hit.
 
You are applying your set of rules to everyone...and that doest work.

Many of us, myself included, could care less about fur. Many of us, myself included, would rather kill a coyote at 250 than 80, and at 400 rather 250.
 
Originally Posted By: liliysdadYou are applying your set of rules to everyone...and that doest work.

Many of us, myself included, could care less about fur. Many of us, myself included, would rather kill a coyote at 250 than 80, and at 400 rather 250.

I am not trying to make "rules". My original post applied to CALLED COYOTES, and selling coyote pelts. It was just an a observation! Lighten up!
 
Just depends where you're at and the type of terrain you're hunting in. Here I can set up to get them really close and there's places I might have to shoot them at over 100 yards especially if I call in multiple coyotes. You might get one then have a shot at the other coyote at 300+ yards. That's where the 22-250 really shines in my opinion. A .223 will tear them up if shot placement is bad. A 22-250 normally won't if shot placement is good. So both calibers have potential to be good on fur and bad depending on the bullet and shot placement.
 
I kill around 20-25 a year, majority of those are called and then there's a couple I catch out in the hay field or pastures. I shoot 220 swift most of the time just because pelt around my area isn't worth the trouble of skinning. There's just something about shooting the 220 that makes you think you're high on a mountain LOL
 
Originally Posted By: wolftrapper

I am not trying to make "rules". My original post applied to CALLED COYOTES, and selling coyote pelts. It was just an a observation! Lighten up!

So, by your definition, a coyote killed at 250, or 400 yards isnt "CALLED?"
 
Just my opinion if you have to shoot it at a quarter mile it is either hung up or just curious about what the racket is way over there, not called in. To me a called coyote is actively coming in to find the sound source, how far you shoot it really depends on, coyote body language, wind, terrain and how patient you are. To me calling one to my shoelaces is a RUSH, potting one in the next section is about as exciting as putting a good group on paper. But as with all things everyone has an opinion.

At my time in life out smarting a coyote is far more satisfying than racking up numbers. If numbers were important to me I'd be out stringing iron than trying to shoot them. I used to put up 50+ fox a year trapping just to and from work and around the farm on the weekends let alone all the coon and mink to go with them.
 
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I enjoyed reading all the responses.

There is definitely a wealth of information and a lot of knowledge on this site.
Thanks for sharing.
 
I am no expert by far but recently started packing a 243 for the possible wolf that is high on my list if it was not for the wolf presence I would use 222 or 223 and I am fur conscious ,good post .I do feel that a wolf might be bagged with a marginal shot from a 243 more so than the same marginal shot with a 223.No problem with folks with poor fur shooting any thing.Only trying to be helpful here, carry on.
 
Sometimes it's fun to use a .223 and has worked even on hang ups to 300 yds which are common.
The .22-250 does a much better job overall and if I anticipate a friendly one coming in then a PSP in the barrel first is good.
A BT bullet close up can be real good or real bad.
We can't carry a .243 cal or larger during big game season without an open or unnotched tag, but yet it is nice to have the extra power of the 250 in case a cougar pops up which requires a .22 centerfire or larger.
 
WT thanks for the post I for one found the replies very informative and interesting to see how close other people call an animal that they shoot. I hunt with a 223 mostly but sometimes if they are spooky I'll take one of my 22-250's and stretch the yardage. I've often wondered how far my choice to shoot compared to other hunters. So thanks for asking a question that I've often had but never asked.
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First off I hunt for fur. I own a .223 and a 220 Swift. The swift is hands down my favorite. A 55 grain vmax at 3950 or 2850 out of the .223 rarely exits at any range. I primarily target Coyotes though. I have turned down shots at Cats as not to damage them or carried a shotgun along. Like Savage says shooting a Swift is special. I know people have the Ackley improved and the others and that's great. Its just fun when a Coyote hangs up thinking its out of range, then SMACK! I say chose whichever gun floats your boat and have fun.
 
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