75 Yard long range buckshot patterns, F, T, #4 Buck
- Thread starter ackleyman
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SlickerThanSnot
New member
those coyotes are easy to skin too.
they should go shoot at some real coyotes at 80 to 100 yards and tell us the results. better yet, they should video it and show us the results.
they should go shoot at some real coyotes at 80 to 100 yards and tell us the results. better yet, they should video it and show us the results.
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
If you are planning on shooting coyotes at over 50 yards away use a rifle.
I wonder what density their hard cast lead shot is? It could be less dense than lead and that will not help the down range energy.
According to my KPY Shotshell Ballistic program 12g/cc Hevi-Shot T shot still out performs Nickel plated lead T shot.
Nickel plated lead T shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards.
Hevi-Shot T shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 85 yards.
There are quite a few shot sizes and types that can kill coyotes at over 50 yards away but the patterns are not good enough to reliably hit the vitals at longer distances.
SlickerThanSnot
New member
it all looks good on paper coyote.
I have killed a few that far with #4 Buck that started with a muzzle velocity of 1350 fps, but I load 32 pellets of #4 buck.
These guys kill a lot of deer with buckshot. I believe that they use straight wheel weights. For most of us, that would be a very, very long shot and rare.
I think that the best way to interpret this video is imagine what the pattern would be at 50 yards?
I have sent Wade an email asking him to make a Video on patterns at 50 yards for predators using BB, T, and #4 Buck shot, and he stated that it would be a great idea. They are very busy deer hunting that started around Aug 20. Wade also reminded me that the Title of the Video is LONGRANGE BUCKSHOT LOADS FOR PREDATORS.
When I talked to him, I asked him about his pattern board and the material is 1/2" OSB, and that even T shot was shooting holes through it at 75 yards.
The best information that I get out of Wade's You Tube Video is that a guy can be successful reloading Buckshot in a variety of sizes with Ballistic Product's help, with a Mec Reloader. I think that it is always good sense to shoot the best shot that you can afford. As we all know, reloading is a side hobby of hunting. Reloading buckshot is expensive to get set up in unless you can get the Mec Reloaders at a pawn shop, or utilize the shot shell reloading in other ways such as shooting Clays, Trap, or Skeet, doves, pheasants, Crows, deer(slugs & Buckshot). A guy can find loads with sweet spots that simply pattern unreal at longer range. Shooting pigeons, ducks, and especially Geese(back in the day of lead shot) is what got me interested in all of the long range shooting.
In all the years, I think that I have killed one coyote at 80 yards, but have killed a lot in the 50-60 yard range, have shot AT more than a few that had the after burners turned on. I think that the correct leade with one running like a grey hound would be as important than the pattern, and no doubt I would expect to empty my gun if I knocked him down.
Very few people reload for shot shells anymore, and that is a real shame. Reloading leads to more shooting, more patterns, playing with chokes, gun fit correction, etc. It is a lot of fun when a few guys that hunt together get into it and split up the costs.
These guys kill a lot of deer with buckshot. I believe that they use straight wheel weights. For most of us, that would be a very, very long shot and rare.
I think that the best way to interpret this video is imagine what the pattern would be at 50 yards?
I have sent Wade an email asking him to make a Video on patterns at 50 yards for predators using BB, T, and #4 Buck shot, and he stated that it would be a great idea. They are very busy deer hunting that started around Aug 20. Wade also reminded me that the Title of the Video is LONGRANGE BUCKSHOT LOADS FOR PREDATORS.
When I talked to him, I asked him about his pattern board and the material is 1/2" OSB, and that even T shot was shooting holes through it at 75 yards.
The best information that I get out of Wade's You Tube Video is that a guy can be successful reloading Buckshot in a variety of sizes with Ballistic Product's help, with a Mec Reloader. I think that it is always good sense to shoot the best shot that you can afford. As we all know, reloading is a side hobby of hunting. Reloading buckshot is expensive to get set up in unless you can get the Mec Reloaders at a pawn shop, or utilize the shot shell reloading in other ways such as shooting Clays, Trap, or Skeet, doves, pheasants, Crows, deer(slugs & Buckshot). A guy can find loads with sweet spots that simply pattern unreal at longer range. Shooting pigeons, ducks, and especially Geese(back in the day of lead shot) is what got me interested in all of the long range shooting.
In all the years, I think that I have killed one coyote at 80 yards, but have killed a lot in the 50-60 yard range, have shot AT more than a few that had the after burners turned on. I think that the correct leade with one running like a grey hound would be as important than the pattern, and no doubt I would expect to empty my gun if I knocked him down.
Very few people reload for shot shells anymore, and that is a real shame. Reloading leads to more shooting, more patterns, playing with chokes, gun fit correction, etc. It is a lot of fun when a few guys that hunt together get into it and split up the costs.
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I'm interested in learning to load shot shells. Won't be able to squeeze it into the budget until spring. So I have time to start gathering info to hopefully buy my equipment just once and have a pretty good idea of where I want to go with components.
My interest will be loading for predators only. 3" 12 gauge only. I'm thinking that means lead #4 buck and non-toxic and heavier than lead BB and #2. But, that's just what I'm thinking at this very earliest stage, based on just about zero experience, so who knows where I'll really end up. I'll be hand loading for performance, not to save money, but I certainly won't complain if I end up saving money.
Anyway... If anyone has any suggestions for reading material on the real specifics and nitty gritty of this type of shotshell loading, suggestions for books in particular would be appreciated but good online content would be appreciated too.
- DAA
My interest will be loading for predators only. 3" 12 gauge only. I'm thinking that means lead #4 buck and non-toxic and heavier than lead BB and #2. But, that's just what I'm thinking at this very earliest stage, based on just about zero experience, so who knows where I'll really end up. I'll be hand loading for performance, not to save money, but I certainly won't complain if I end up saving money.
Anyway... If anyone has any suggestions for reading material on the real specifics and nitty gritty of this type of shotshell loading, suggestions for books in particular would be appreciated but good online content would be appreciated too.
- DAA
Dave, this is the best place to start.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212783/bpi-buckshot-loading-4-reloading-manual
I have learned that a pay load is a pay load.
Wade gets a lot of his loads right out of the Ballistic's products manual. Over the years, I have learned that Buffer helps a lot on buckshot loads.
If I were starting from scratch shooting plain lead shot from Ballistic's products, I would focus on BB, T, and F buckshot. If I had to pick just one, it would be a toss up between T and F buck.
Dave, where you live, shots can be long, and 50 yards is just a chip shot. For the longer shots, #4 buck will kill way out there.
In my Remington's, I shoot a Carlson's turkey choke, and 100% of the pattern is in a 20" circle at 40 yards, with 00 and 000 all going in a 15" circle. This pattern size is absolutely too tight for some hunting situations, but in the high dessert that you hunt in, it may be great for your longer shots.
Chokes are the strangest thing to work with. I have a beretta 391, have the extra full flush mount, extra full extended, and a super long extra full that is ported. Of these three chokes, the flush mount pattern's the tightest, all Beretta chokes. I can only guess that the additional weight on the end of the barrel is detrimental to the pattern, just like adding a "tuner" or a muzzle break on the end of the rifle barrel can be detrimental/help group size.
I can add that playing with chokes can be very, very beneficial. I buy them used off of ebay, re sale them if they don't pattern the way I wish. Using regular lead shot buckshot, I would start off with a extra full and go down to a .660 choke. It may be just my imagination, but I DO NOT LIKE ported chokes as I believe that it can strip the wad off the shot causing the shot to shoot a wider pattern...gut feeling only.
In Wade's video, he shot a couple of chokes only. What I do is find a good load, then go to testing chokes. I can tell you that F Buck, and #4 buck Kill very good at 50 yards, main thing is to play with patterns/chokes. Four #4 buck will put a coyote on the ground, at least long enough for a second shot.
I hunted with a former Wyoming Game warden and his load was 24 of #4 Buck, he killed the heck out of coyotes with that load, tight patterns at 1300 fps with a standard Rem 870 with a fixed full choke, 30" barrel.
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212783/bpi-buckshot-loading-4-reloading-manual
I have learned that a pay load is a pay load.
Wade gets a lot of his loads right out of the Ballistic's products manual. Over the years, I have learned that Buffer helps a lot on buckshot loads.
If I were starting from scratch shooting plain lead shot from Ballistic's products, I would focus on BB, T, and F buckshot. If I had to pick just one, it would be a toss up between T and F buck.
Dave, where you live, shots can be long, and 50 yards is just a chip shot. For the longer shots, #4 buck will kill way out there.
In my Remington's, I shoot a Carlson's turkey choke, and 100% of the pattern is in a 20" circle at 40 yards, with 00 and 000 all going in a 15" circle. This pattern size is absolutely too tight for some hunting situations, but in the high dessert that you hunt in, it may be great for your longer shots.
Chokes are the strangest thing to work with. I have a beretta 391, have the extra full flush mount, extra full extended, and a super long extra full that is ported. Of these three chokes, the flush mount pattern's the tightest, all Beretta chokes. I can only guess that the additional weight on the end of the barrel is detrimental to the pattern, just like adding a "tuner" or a muzzle break on the end of the rifle barrel can be detrimental/help group size.
I can add that playing with chokes can be very, very beneficial. I buy them used off of ebay, re sale them if they don't pattern the way I wish. Using regular lead shot buckshot, I would start off with a extra full and go down to a .660 choke. It may be just my imagination, but I DO NOT LIKE ported chokes as I believe that it can strip the wad off the shot causing the shot to shoot a wider pattern...gut feeling only.
In Wade's video, he shot a couple of chokes only. What I do is find a good load, then go to testing chokes. I can tell you that F Buck, and #4 buck Kill very good at 50 yards, main thing is to play with patterns/chokes. Four #4 buck will put a coyote on the ground, at least long enough for a second shot.
I hunted with a former Wyoming Game warden and his load was 24 of #4 Buck, he killed the heck out of coyotes with that load, tight patterns at 1300 fps with a standard Rem 870 with a fixed full choke, 30" barrel.
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat
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derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Dave let me know when you want to get started reloading coyote loads. I have some stuff I can no longer use in California legally that I will give you a good deal on.
Using a plastic shotgun primer tray is a good way to count out T lead shot pellets. Two T pellets will stay in the open holes and the rest of the pellets run off and fall back into the box that you scoop them up out of.
Using a plastic shotgun primer tray is a good way to count out T lead shot pellets. Two T pellets will stay in the open holes and the rest of the pellets run off and fall back into the box that you scoop them up out of.
Originally Posted By: GCUnless the wad is a Flite Control wad, stripping the wad is beneficial to a more consistent center dense pattern. Flite Control wads are designed to stay with and hold the shot column. All other wads should be gone asap after exiting the muzzle.
the ballistic's products BP 12 wad has no slits. You can control a pattern's density on this wad by making 2 slits, 3 slits, or 4 slits, to various depths.
With two slits about half way down on the BP 12 wad, the shot stays in the wad a lot longer, giving more dense patterns at longer ranges. You are boxing yourself in a corner with these long range type of loads because when a coyote runs right up to within 15' of you, you are basically shooting a slug.
I have several thousand of the flite control wads that I bought from a company that disassembles scrap factory shells, and they are not available for sale on the component market. I have not played with the flite control wads for the purpose of long range predator loads. The flite control wads are very thick and require a more open choke. I loaded a few 0 buck in them and the patterns were ok in a modified and imp cylinder, not all that impressed but I lost interest in them pretty quick not giving them a good work out. A standard full choke blew the patterns all to heck with the Flite control wad, so somewhere between a cylinder to improved modified will probably be the best with them.
Often, it is difficult to impossible to duplicate the success of a factory load, and the Flite control factory loads maybe one of those instances.
the ballistic's products BP 12 wad has no slits. You can control a pattern's density on this wad by making 2 slits, 3 slits, or 4 slits, to various depths.
With two slits about half way down on the BP 12 wad, the shot stays in the wad a lot longer, giving more dense patterns at longer ranges. You are boxing yourself in a corner with these long range type of loads because when a coyote runs right up to within 15' of you, you are basically shooting a slug.
I have several thousand of the flite control wads that I bought from a company that disassembles scrap factory shells, and they are not available for sale on the component market. I have not played with the flite control wads for the purpose of long range predator loads. The flite control wads are very thick and require a more open choke. I loaded a few 0 buck in them and the patterns were ok in a modified and imp cylinder, not all that impressed but I lost interest in them pretty quick not giving them a good work out. A standard full choke blew the patterns all to heck with the Flite control wad, so somewhere between a cylinder to improved modified will probably be the best with them.
Often, it is difficult to impossible to duplicate the success of a factory load, and the Flite control factory loads maybe one of those instances.
Depends on what you are looking for I guess.
I bought both. For my purposes, of the two, the Buckshot has some data I can use (for 3", 1-1/2 oz. lead T). There really isn't anything in the Coyote manual for me though.
But. I've yet to load my first shotshell. I'm not even a noob yet. And what I'm looking to do and am interested in for data, might be very different from what you are looking for.
And, in fact, the load I'm going to try first, using Hevi-shot BB in 3" Fiocchi hulls, there's no data for in either of those manuals. Or in the Advantages manual either. So...
- DAA
I bought both. For my purposes, of the two, the Buckshot has some data I can use (for 3", 1-1/2 oz. lead T). There really isn't anything in the Coyote manual for me though.
But. I've yet to load my first shotshell. I'm not even a noob yet. And what I'm looking to do and am interested in for data, might be very different from what you are looking for.
And, in fact, the load I'm going to try first, using Hevi-shot BB in 3" Fiocchi hulls, there's no data for in either of those manuals. Or in the Advantages manual either. So...
- DAA
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
If you guys are ordering from BPI it may be worth a try and buy some of their BBB lead shot.
The BBB lead shot pellet weighs about 20% more than the lead BB pellet does.
In 1-1/2 oz of shot there is right at 56 lead T shot pellets, in 1-1/2 oz of lead BBB shot there is right at 65 pellets.
I used more lead T shot than I did the BBB shot when I could use lead shot. The lead BBB shot did work good on the coyotes I shot with them.
If the lead BBB shot does the job having 9 more pellets per shell is a great thing to have.
According to my KPY Shotshell Ballistic program, look below.
lead BB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards, 77 pellets per shell
lead BBB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 55.8 yards, 65 pellets per shell
lead T shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards, 56 pellets per shell
Hevi-Shot BB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards, 70 pellets per shell
The BBB lead shot pellet weighs about 20% more than the lead BB pellet does.
In 1-1/2 oz of shot there is right at 56 lead T shot pellets, in 1-1/2 oz of lead BBB shot there is right at 65 pellets.
I used more lead T shot than I did the BBB shot when I could use lead shot. The lead BBB shot did work good on the coyotes I shot with them.
If the lead BBB shot does the job having 9 more pellets per shell is a great thing to have.
According to my KPY Shotshell Ballistic program, look below.
lead BB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards, 77 pellets per shell
lead BBB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 55.8 yards, 65 pellets per shell
lead T shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards, 56 pellets per shell
Hevi-Shot BB shot at 1300 fps got 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards, 70 pellets per shell
Interesting! The lead BBB gives up only 7 yards on the penetration, and has only 5 less pellets, than the Hevi-Shot BB. In other words, on paper at least, it's right on the heels of the Hevi-Shot BB, but at "normal" prices the lead BBB would be much cheaper to load and shoot.
- DAA
- DAA
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: DAAInteresting! The lead BBB gives up only 7 yards on the penetration, and has only 5 less pellets, than the Hevi-Shot BB. In other words, on paper at least, it's right on the heels of the Hevi-Shot BB, but at "normal" prices the lead BBB would be much cheaper to load and shoot.
- DAA
I found out that the KPY Shotshell ballistic program does not figure in the lead shot deforming or flattening out.
So the gel penetration for lead shot will be less than the KPY Shotshell ballistic program shows.
So the hard shot types that stay round like steel and the tungsten alloy shot types the penetration given is pretty accurate.
But since the lead shot does not stay round the penetration that it actually gets will be less than the KPY ballistic program shows for lead shot.
One thing I have seen for sure is that the hard tungsten alloy shot breaks bones way more often than lead shot does.
- DAA
I found out that the KPY Shotshell ballistic program does not figure in the lead shot deforming or flattening out.
So the gel penetration for lead shot will be less than the KPY Shotshell ballistic program shows.
So the hard shot types that stay round like steel and the tungsten alloy shot types the penetration given is pretty accurate.
But since the lead shot does not stay round the penetration that it actually gets will be less than the KPY ballistic program shows for lead shot.
One thing I have seen for sure is that the hard tungsten alloy shot breaks bones way more often than lead shot does.