What are the difference's

pyscodog

Active member
in the 6 WOA, 6x6.8, 6 Hager? I tried to do a bit of research and I guess I'm not finding the answers I am looking for. Seems all are built of the 6.8 SPC case if I'm not mistaken. The 223 bolt face is to small and the mid size, 308 bolt face is going to be to large so bolt work will be necessary for sure. Do you just open up the 223 bolt face and add a Sako extractor??

Added: On a bolt action rifle
 
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Originally Posted By: pyscodog..are built of the 6.8 SPC case...so bolt work will be necessary..?
There are bolts available for the 6.8 SPC case head that fit directly into 223 BCG, no BCG mods needed.
So a rebuild of a 223 AR into a 6.8 SPC type case needs: new barrel, new bolt, and new magazine.
Have only done it twice, but went smooth both times..

As far differences in 6 WOA, 6x6.8, 6 Hager, to me the ballistics appear to be so close
that other things are more important like, support, reload issues, barrel availability, stuff like that..
 
As noted above the 6.8 bolts are available for the AR and if you wanted one in a bolt gun P{T&G does them for the Savage. Remington made a run of 6.8 guns but they are very rare. On the Savage you would have to tweak the magazines if you want a repeater as the case body is neither 223 or 308. Almost fits but not quite..LOL

This is a posting I wrote a couple years ago. It is kind of rambling so you will have to read through the parts that do not apply. Remember all this is my opinion on some things and far be it from me to claim professional status and Grand Poo bah of the 6.8 in its various iterations. I do know a bit but the guys on here know one heck of a lot too.

My Posting:

I was at my local Benchrest supply store last week and was chatting with some other shooters. I have been dabbling in F-Class matches this past year shooting out to 500 learning about the wind and other environmental issues besides cartridge selection. I’ve shot the 6X45, the 243 LBC and the 6X6.8 from BHW .

I have not had the chance to shoot the 6 WOA or the 6 DTI but as far as I can tell they are ballistic all very close to each other. I know the 6 WOA moves the shoulder back and goes to 30 degrees and the DTI swings it forward with the same move to 30 degrees where the 6X6.8 (really a 6X42.6) is merely a necked down 6.8 with no change in shoulder angle or location.

The discussion revolved around the 6X6.8 and the 243 LBC. The case capacity on the two is very close and the performance out the barrel is also close. The LBC being shorter allows for big bullets to be seated out, depending on throating, and not steal case capacity like a big bullet does in the 6X6.8. The 6X6.8 shines in that it can shoot the little varmint bullets and keep the jump down a tad.

As we talked the 6 HAGAR came up and the consensus was it would make a good lower end F-Class cartridge. It has a proven track record in the High Power world so it probably would not be too shabby in longer range stuff and would also make a great little varmint shooter thanks to the extra case capacity. With the introduction of Hornady brass the cartridge looks a lot more viable than it did two years ago.

I started a web search to see what had been written and to try and get some anecdotal data for evaluation against what I have been shooting. Between Creedmoor, Hornady and The Accurate Shooter I think I got a pretty good over view of the cartridge itself and some of the performance out there. I found out that it has a body that is 0.100 longer than the 6.8 SPC and has a 30 degree shoulder. It shares the same rim size as they are both derived from the old 30 Remington case and you cannot make a HAGAR from a current 6.8. It, of course, has a greater case capacity than the 6.8. Loading pressures were being kept in the realm of the 6.8 SPC at 55,000 being slightly less than a NATO 556. Magazine length of 2.260 can be used in the HAGAR even with big 105 grain bullets but ideally most guys will shoot them with windowed magazines sold by Creedmoor Sports unless you do a home grown.

As I looked it over the HAGAR looked good for future use until I started thinking about shoving those LONG match bullets in the case taking up boiler room. I wondered if there was a true advantage on this one over the 6X6.8, WOA and DTI trio. A GOOGLE search turned up a ton of pictures of various 6 MM cartridges that happened to include the HAGAR and the straight neck down 6X6.8. Here is one that just shows a profile view of several 6 MM cartridges for a visual reference.

6mmAR-15Cartridgesphoto_zps7ed88b94.jpg


I’m glad they threw the 6X45 in there as we all understand that one. The 6X6.8 SPC I am very familiar with. The 6 mm XTRA ImproveD looks like a 6.8 SPC with an Ackley 40 degree shoulder blown forward. The HAGAR stands tall in length and shoulder height. The 6mmAR,is close to the 243 LBC and is short and squat being a 6 PPC derivative. Not a bad way to get on the board IMHO. Oddly enough the 6mmAR was developed independently by Robert Whitley and Ritch Johnson at the exact same time though the 243 LBC by Ritch was called the 6 NFA at the time. The 6mmAR Turbo is an improved case with the 40 degree shoulder that moves forward.

The 6mmAR and TURBO can be throated to handle magazine length heavy bullets without an issue. That is the reason why I felt the 243 LBC was a good deal for my game playing as it is et up for the VLD's going in.

The 6X45 is not up to the challenge once you exceed about 90 grains of projectile no matter what you use as your propellant. It is a 600 yard maximum case in my mind. I don’t know anything about the XTRA and have not found any data on it. If my belief is that it is an improved 6.8 SPC then the short neck might lend itself to some problematic areas but I would have to get some feedback from another shooter on that one. Since I don’t know about it I’ll go with what I am familiar with.

That gets me down to the HAGAR and the 6X6.8. I’ll drop the SPC for now. The HAGAR, as mentioned earlier, has greater case capacity thanks to an increased shoulder height along with a greater case length over the other. My question was does it really do something for us on the line?

Here is a shot taken of some 6mm HAGAR cases with representative bullets seated to a COL of 2.260, magazine style, like a shooter would use in most activities. This was great shot of the case robbing we deal with when using those wonderfully long high B.C. bullets we love to seat in our quest for the ultimate in wind bucking and down range performance.

sixhagarcuts02_zps79c529e5.jpg


As you can see there is a lot of bullet seated down into the case. That doesn’t help our need for speed and performance. I had some 6X6.8’s that I sectioned previously. Not as elegant as the first picture but something I explored a few months ago. I have at least learned a better technique for seating illustrations from this look.

The 6X6.8 with a Hornady 105.

DSC05514-1.jpg


Advantage?

The 6X6.8, WOA and DTI are ballistically equivalent with the DTI at MAX, the WOA at minimum and the 6X6.8 in case capacity. As an aside there is a 6MM PDK that is almost identical to the DTI and published data is way HOT!!! (IMHO don’t go there). None of those three require trimming. Brass is available by the bucketful. Once windowed magazines showed up the three catch up quickly to the HAGAR from light to heavy if the proper reamer is selected.

The HAGAR shined when seating big bullets out with windowed magazines but until then used up too much case capacity to gain much. It did pick up some with varmint bullets at the short loadings but it was nothing of great note. Lately the brass supply is growing for the HAGAR thanks to Hornady and Creedmoor Sports but not any loaded ammunition will be found for any of the four cartridges.

Dies are available from various sources with Hornady doing the HAGAR and special runs on the DTI and WOA as I understand it but they are not OTC by any means. The 6X6.8 is available from CH4D or one can use 6.8 bushing dies for case forming.

Greg



 
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