Acceptable shotgun patterns

Originally Posted By: azmastablastaIt's obvious you've either been reading false information or are speaking with a lack of experience. Shotstring may be 3-4 inches at 10 ft but at 40 yds on a fast swing it will be measured in feet, period.
what is obvious is you are out of you element when talking about what a shot string is. what you wrote above is so far off of reality.

Originally Posted By: azmastablastathen come back and humbly tell me how right I was
when you learn the reality of shot strings you should come back to admit that you were wrong but now you understand more about the subject. humbly of course.
 
Bob posted an excellent article on the subject of shot string earlier, so maybe it would be a good idea to read it. All I can contribute to the discussion is there is a world of difference between taking a fixed lead as compared to a swinging lead with the gun barrel moving. Do enough dove shooting and you learn that.
 
Never been a shotgunner, just learning here - what I'm learning agrees with everything my Dad who was a shotgunner told me though.

Loved the comment in the video "heck the barrel would make a sonic boom if you could do that!".
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- DAA
 
That's an excellent video Bob. Gil Ash is an easily recognizable name as a top shotgun shooting sports instructor. Even an inexperienced old country boy like me knows who he is and I havent hob nobbed around with any of those world champions for 40 years like some others have. Mr. Ash has good information, 800+ mph swing & sonic boom lol, and an easy to understand visual water shooting demonstration. Plus a slow motion replay comparison. If I recall it was a water shooting contest that was called for to prove the theory of the elongated tail of the J as mentioned above. Exactly what we are discussing and to the point. Thanks for posting that.
 
Originally Posted By: possumalBob posted an excellent article on the subject of shot string earlier, so maybe it would be a good idea to read it. All I can contribute to the discussion is there is a world of difference between taking a fixed lead as compared to a swinging lead with the gun barrel moving. Do enough dove shooting and you learn that.

Notice I mention the "actual shooting method" in a post above. Anytime you are leading a target you are swinging the barrel. There are different methods used to establish lead. However we know that in any manner we establish lead we cannot swing the barrel fast enough to spray the center core of the shot laterally by several feet.
 
GC, I don't mean to argue with you, but I have seen lots of poor dove shooters who tried to take a fixed lead, i.e. 3 ft., when shooting doves, and still shot behind them. The best dove shooters keep the barrel moving, many times catching up from behind and on through the dove.
 
If a shooter tries to spot shoot ahead of the dove by poking the barrel 3' ahead and then stop the barrel and crush the trigger, yeah they're gonna miss. The three accepted methods to establish lead are the swing through, pull away and sustained lead. Which method an experienced shooter chooses is determined some by personal preference and very much by target presentation. The target distance, speed and angle are important in choosing the most appropriate lead method. That requires an understanding of technique and a good bit of experience. Note also that what amount of lead works for me might not work for you and my perception of the amount of lead might be different than your perception of the same. As an example, on the Skeet field shooting the no. 4 target which is a classic broadside crossing target I use sustained lead and see about 4' of lead. If I shoot using swing through I might see 2.5' of lead. The difference is barrel speed between the two methods. On that shot the sustained lead technique is much more consistent and repeatable than the swing through. Some techniques are definitely better than others for different target presentations. Interestingly, another shooter might see 5' of lead using sustained lead on the same target. Some of that stuff is a bit individualistic as long as good fundamentals are in place. Please forgive me if you are aware of that stuff. I'm not being argumentative and I certainly don't know it all.

EDIT: I found a video that explains and demonstrates better than I can explain in text.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAS8SWLd6M
 
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congrats accepted, a little lake or pond shooting will amaze you, try it when you're trying to decide how to adjust your shooting guys, you can thank me later.
 
Originally Posted By: azmastablastacongrats accepted, a little lake or pond shooting will amaze you, try it when you're trying to decide how to adjust your shooting guys, you can thank me later.

Seriously?
 
Seriously, you will be very unlikely to ever get the same pellet count on a moving target as you got on the target board. Sorry that's simply the way it is.
 
Nobody stated that and that's NOT the point of the discussion. Nice try at deflection though...
 
That was my point from the very beginning, if you missed that well, maybe you should reread rather than thump your chest and try for a pizzin contest. Frankly I will check out of this before You decide to stand in the bar ditch and attempt to pee over that schoolbus. I made my point and anyone interested in how shotstring will affect their attempt at killing now knows to go to a pond or a lake to see it for themselves. So here's your chance pardner, if getting the last word makes you feel smug and superior, well knock yourself out. I'm just sayin.
 
Next time I go quail hunting, I will start with the muzzle on the ground and pull the trigger as I push upwards thru the covey. Should be able to limit with one shot thanks to the shot string.
 
I didn't write this but I do agree with it.

4: Shooting across, and into water enables you to see the shot string?

What you actually see is the spread, magnified by the shallow angle of the shot as the pellets enter the water. The bottom pellets in the pattern enter the water first and the shot may travel another 15 or 20 yards until the uppermost pellets hit the water. This delayed entry gives the illusion that the shot column is being graphically displayed when in fact it is merely a projection of the pattern diameter.
 
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Originally Posted By: GCIf a shooter tries to spot shoot ahead of the dove by poking the barrel 3' ahead and then stop the barrel and crush the trigger, yeah they're gonna miss. The three accepted methods to establish lead are the swing through, pull away and sustained lead. Which method an experienced shooter chooses is determined some by personal preference and very much by target presentation. The target distance, speed and angle are important in choosing the most appropriate lead method. That requires an understanding of technique and a good bit of experience. Note also that what amount of lead works for me might not work for you and my perception of the amount of lead might be different than your perception of the same. As an example, on the Skeet field shooting the no. 4 target which is a classic broadside crossing target I use sustained lead and see about 4' of lead. If I shoot using swing through I might see 2.5' of lead. The difference is barrel speed between the two methods. On that shot the sustained lead technique is much more consistent and repeatable than the swing through. Some techniques are definitely better than others for different target presentations. Interestingly, another shooter might see 5' of lead using sustained lead on the same target. Some of that stuff is a bit individualistic as long as good fundamentals are in place. Please forgive me if you are aware of that stuff. I'm not being argumentative and I certainly don't know it all.

EDIT: I found a video that explains and demonstrates better than I can explain in text.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAS8SWLd6M
well gc from what I know about shotgunning you have got it right. I have a 4000 gallon steel gas tank that is about 20 or 25 feet long about 5 feet high. I have painted it white & shot hundreds of rounds trying to find the best choke shell combination. a shotshell is always going to have flyers, right,left,up,& down but the majority of shot is delivered to target, if you have right lead, & you swing thru on moving target. the video you posted is evident of that, did you notice he was crushing birds at 30 yards with a 20 ga. flyers do not kill game or crush birds. they barely chip the paint. can anyone say scattergun.
 
Originally Posted By: azmastablastaThat was my point from the very beginning, if you missed that well, maybe you should reread rather than thump your chest and try for a pizzin contest. Frankly I will check out of this before You decide to stand in the bar ditch and attempt to pee over that schoolbus. I made my point and anyone interested in how shotstring will affect their attempt at killing now knows to go to a pond or a lake to see it for themselves. So here's your chance pardner, if getting the last word makes you feel smug and superior, well knock yourself out. I'm just sayin.

In the Ozark's we call that " craw daddin'. " You've certainly revealed your true character here.
 
You don't see the shot string when you shoot a shotgun pattern into the water. When you shoot at a duck on the water the first pellets that hit way below the duck are the bottom pellets in the pattern. The pellets that hit in the water way above and way past the duck are the top pellets in the pattern. A pattern with no shot string that is completely flat will hit the water the same way a long shot string would, bottom pellets low and below the duck and top pellets above and past the duck.

Below is a low quality drawing side view of a 24" flat pattern with no shot string hitting the water. The pellets you see hitting the water 30 feet to 60 feet apart is not the shot string.
2016-07-04%2010.14.21.jpg


What you actually see is the spread, magnified by the shallow angle of the shot as the pellets enter the water. The bottom pellets in the pattern enter the water first and the shot may travel another 15 or 20 yards until the uppermost pellets hit the water. This delayed entry gives the illusion that the shot column is being graphically displayed when in fact it is merely a projection of the pattern diameter.
 
Originally Posted By: GCOriginally Posted By: possumalBob posted an excellent article on the subject of shot string earlier, so maybe it would be a good idea to read it. All I can contribute to the discussion is there is a world of difference between taking a fixed lead as compared to a swinging lead with the gun barrel moving. Do enough dove shooting and you learn that.

Notice I mention the "actual shooting method" in a post above. Anytime you are leading a target you are swinging the barrel. There are different methods used to establish lead. However we know that in any manner we establish lead we cannot swing the barrel fast enough to spray the center core of the shot laterally by several feet.

With all the discussion, some may have got lost. "However we know that in any manner we establish lead we cannot swing the barrel fast enough to spray the center core of the shot laterally by several feet"

GC's comment is dead nuts due to the actual time involved(fps) the shot is traveling.

ON running coyotes, remember to leade them (what ever your method) and do not stop your swing, you will shoot behind them every time if you stop your swing which also applies to a rifle also.
 
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