7.62x39 inherently inaccurate or product of its environment?

J

jimmyp

New member
All I have ever pushed 7.62x39 through has been SKS rifles, and while I have seen/made some impressive shots made, I think we can all agree that consistent accuracy just isn't there.

For those of y'all shooting 7.62x39 uppers on an AR platform, would it be reasonable to expect MOA accuracy out of one to 150-200yds?
 
With a good barrel I would expect good results. Feed it garbage ammunition though and expect garbage results. I just sent Ritch all the goodies for a 7.62X39 upper. My barrel is being drilled and rifled at BHW next week. If things work out I can give you an answer in August.

Greg
 
i've never shot US made brass cased ammo through a quality barrel.

all i've ever shot is combloc new production, or milsurp stuff through ak's and SKS's.




i'm betting that with some respectable ammo and a good barrel you should be able to achieve your MOA results, but its probably going to run you $1 a shot or so to get there - or require handloading.



for that price you might as well get a blackout upper, never have to deal with the magazine & bolt issues that (many) x39 ar's can be plagued with.... and reloading is way easier to find components for because of the .308 bullets used instead of .310's and the converted 5.56 brass.

heck some of us (myself included) are buying .310 SST's and resizing them with a lee push through sizing die down to .3085 and running those in our blackouts for cheap blasting bullets too. i see as good of performance out of them as i do regular 125gr .308 SST's (identical POI at 100 yds and nearly same velocity - a mixed magazine of them will give me SD 30 for 10 shots with the same charge of lil gun) and i wouldnt hesitate to hunt with them either.


and oh ya, you can put a suppressor on it, drop subs in the mag and go quiet if you really want to.


just food for thought.
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I dislike the word inherent in relation to ammo and its accuracy. It doesnt really fit. If a round is inherently accurate, it doesn't matter who the shooter is. It HAS to be a accurate shot.

After that, define 'accurate'. It means something differet to each of us, and it means different things at different times to the same person.


I had a cheap and badly abused sks, shooting cheap ammo through it my best groups were around 8moa. Quick reloaded batch later, 5moa. I decided to restock it and take it to the minimum legal length I took about 6 inches of the barrel using a metal chop saw and 'crowned' it with a pyramid shaped grinding stone in my drill, and then permanently attached a cheap brake. 2moa. I was surprised it did that well, hunting "accurate" after doing horrible horrible things to it.


Cheap rifles and cheap ammo, its only intent is to fling a bullet somewhere down range. Take the same caliber in good ammo and a good rifle, different story.

 
I think it is a product of crappy steel cased ammo, coming from foreign manufacturers.

I built a 7.62x39 upper, with a Wilson barrel(IIRC), for a friend and then developed a load with Hornady's 123 gr. SST bullet, that shot sub-MOA groups with that upper. The rifle shot steel cased Russian manufacturer ammo into 1-1.5 MOA groups, as well. The severe taper on the case makes for reliability issues with spotty magazine feeding.

As far as "inherent accuracy", the 7.62x39 is the parent case for the 220 Russian, which is the parent case for the 6mm PPC. Somewhere in there, is a case that is considered "inherently accurate".
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Squeeze
 
Most (Not all) shooters who like 7.62x39 like them due to cheap blasting ammo. IE, its not really treated like a precision rifle. They blast a paper plate or beer can at 25yds and are happy with the results. 7.62x39 should be plenty accurate assuming you have a good barrel, trigger, ammunition, and optics. Most people skimp in all of those categories on a cheap 7.62x39 rifle and thus the results are sub-par. Good inputs=good outputs.

With that said, I would recommend something other than the 7.62x39 for the AR15 platform due to feedlip angles and magazine availability. I would get a 6.5Grendel, 6.8SPC, or 300BLK (depending on your desired range of effective use) over a 7.62x39.
 
That's a pretty good general summation. I believe with Nosler and a few others getting in to the bullets that fit we will see an increase in those shooting for precision. I have no interest in hose and go. In my world precision rules and that's why Ritch is building one for me. I didn't find magazines hard to find at all. I've actually used some MGW 7.62X39's in a 6PPC. Keeping the capacity down appears to up reliability somewhat.

Greg
 
Neighbor has a Ruger Mark II in 7.62x39, it is very accurate...shocking in fact. He worked up a load with IMI brass, 150g bullets, killed two does with it at 200 yards, put it away and has not touched it since.
 
I wish BHW would neck up the Grendel to 308. Really just an improved 7.62x39. No more tapered case feeding probs, use normal 308 diameter bullets, and gain quite a bit of speed. It should be close to 300 savage? I know they make the 30 American, but this seems easier and better to me with the shorter fatter case.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARI wish BHW would neck up the Grendel to 308. Really just an improved 7.62x39. No more tapered case feeding probs, use normal 308 diameter bullets, and gain quite a bit of speed. It should be close to 300 savage? I know they make the 30 American, but this seems easier and better to me with the shorter fatter case.

If I catch you in my gun room you are in trouble. That's all I'm sayin'

Greeg
 
Reasonable? With good ammo and barrel yes. But understand that most x39 shooters like it because hunting ammo can be purchased for 30 cents per round. People that want accuracy usually start with a better platform.

Consider...
The x39 was designed for shooting men out to 300 yards. Take it back to 200-250 yards for wiggle room and killing. Any ammo I have shot will be minute of hog or deer vitals at that distance. But, none of the above really matters if you live in an area where 150 yards is a Hail Mary.

Buy C-Products Defense mags, and shoot until you run out of ammo. Only hiccups my upper has had were adjustable gas block related.
 
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I've got the mini-30 shooting 1" MOA at 100 yds. That is with hand loads and it is barreled for the .308" dia of readily available bullets. I also have had really good results from S&B brass cased ammo that goes for around $0.50 each in 123 gr FMJ. I went with the mini because the AR's weren't doing too good extracting the steel cased ammo with out breaking. The mini-30 loves the stuff but accuracy isn't that good.
 
Well the thought is, with indianas vague rifle laws, 7.62x39 fits. I am looking to build a brush rifle to use in the woods, and something for the kids to start with. There is some decent loads available, and even though I had planned to go 6x45 I thought with kids coming up the 7.62x39 might be a bit more forgiving on shot placement.

Jim
 
Have a Rock River Lar 47 Tactical Comp 7.62x39 with a FLir RS 64 thermal on top. It consistently puts Hornady steel cased 123 gr and Silver Bear 123 gr HP into 1 1/2" at 100 yds shooting at 4X with the Flir thermal. Golden Tiger FMJ holds a 2" group all day and the Wolf HP and FMJ shoot no worse than 3" out of this rifle. This all I need for hog and coyote in my brushy country.
 
We are looking at a round that was designed to clean out burnt out buildings in the mid 40's, for that it does very well. It was never made to be "accurate" it was made to keep a 16" com pattern, (the size of a man).
I have two of them in ak's with green mountain barrels and american recievers that have taken coyotes out to roughly 400yds open sights. To answer jimmyp's question, yes that caliber works very well for a brush gun. I happen to use under folders since they can be used as a pistol or rifle.
 
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I have an Armalite AR in 7.62x39 off the bench with Wolf performance ammo it averages 1.5, shoot some Hornady SST ammo through it and it will drop that to .75-1. And I'm sure someone who was a better shot than I am could get it down a little from there. I love that rifle.
 
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