.500 S & W , anyone load for one? Anyone use rifle powder?

Originally Posted By: calling4lifeThere are a few guys that load these 700's, as noted above Mattsbullets does, Underwood ammo, ballisticsupply. The version I've been reading about has a 95% MEPLAT, the penetration tests showed a bullet that actually ended up in a dang near perfect mushroom. Yes it's a civilian bullet, it's in the style of a stopper, lead wide flat nose.

Guys do make their own as well, have yet to see any solid copper/brass, but out of a 12" or a rifle something like that may be an outstanding bear stopper.

I was discussing a custom TC Encore build with bullberry to see if I couldn't pull 1600fps out of them somehow, 24" custom barrel... Who knows.

The 630gr grand canyon was also on the list to try, this was going to be my short range coyote gun as I didn't have an interest in going with the normal shotgun.

Ended up finding a Rossi circuit judge in 44mag though, six shots is better for engaging multiple dogs. 1-6x24 scope on it, has turned out to be far more accurate then I can believe and then any reviews have noted.

Perhaps some day that custom 500s&w encore will happen.

At 1200 FPS and 2240 FPE out of a 8 3/8 inch barrel the Taylor Factor places this between a 375 H&H Magnum and a 458 Win Mag.
 
Originally Posted By: jumprightinitOriginally Posted By: B23Originally Posted By: jumprightinitWell cross off any Trail Boss for the 700 gr bullets. I loaded some test rounds up with the Max load and one gr under. They shot like shooting a .22, they hardly made a bang. I'm still looking for some H 110 or Lil Gun locally, I hate to pay the hazardous materials shipping charge for less than 25 lb shipments and I don't want ot buy that much of something I haven't tried. So cross off any Trail Boss unless you want something to let little girls to try.

Any chance you could post a pic of that 700gr bullet, maybe next to a 350 +/- grainer for comparison sake. A pic of a loaded round with one of those monster 700 grainers would be cool too. I'm curious to see how big one of those d*mn things is.
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FWIW, I can pm you my cell # and you could text me a pic if that'd make it easier. Also are these consumer available bullets or hand cast for personal use?

I don't recall if you said but are these big bertha bullets something you're just playing around with for sheets and giggles or do you have a purpose for them? Don't think it's something I'd ever be interested in but I am very curious about them and they DEFINITELY have a certain "Cool" factor going on!!

By the way, are you a Wet sider or Dry sider in the Evergreen state??

Wet side, Ocean Shores. Here's the 700 gr Matts , with a 350 gr Berrys and a .45 ACP for comparison. Oh yeah, these are pretty much just for fun , but I may take it deer/elk/moose hunting too.



Those things are crazy looking.
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You get a good load worked up for those big boys and you could head north a little ways and try them out on one of those big blackies they have on the "Rez". Unfortunately, that'll cost you a few extra $$$ first. I have heard they get some BIG black bears up there though.

Thanks for posting the pics!
 
Originally Posted By: jumprightinit
calling4life said:
There are a few guys that load these 700's, as noted above Mattsbullets does, Underwood ammo, ballisticsupply. The version I've been reading about has a 95% MEPLAT, the penetration tests showed a bullet that actually ended up in a dang near perfect mushroom. Yes it's a civilian bullet, it's in the style of a stopper, lead wide flat nose.

Guys do make their own as well, have yet to see any solid copper/brass, but out of a 12" or a rifle something like that may be an outstanding bear stopper.

I was discussing a custom TC Encore build with bullberry to see if I couldn't pull 1600fps out of them somehow, 24" custom barrel... Who knows.

The 630gr grand canyon was also on the list to try, this was going to be my short range coyote gun as I didn't have an interest in going with the normal shotgun.

Ended up finding a Rossi circuit judge in 44mag though, six shots is better for engaging multiple dogs. 1-6x24 scope on it, has turned out to be far more accurate then I can believe and then any reviews have noted.

Perhaps some day that custom 500s&w encore will happen.

At 1200 FPS and 2240 FPE out of a 8 3/8 inch barrel the Taylor Factor places this between a 375 H&H Magnum and a 458 Win Mag. [/qu

Did you happen to ask Matt if he had any load data for that 700 monster?
I am not against you using the 700 But you said you would like to use some H4227, and you can do that for a very good load with the 440 grain w/GC from Cast Performance. 37 grains which is Max by the way, will take anything in North America. Oh and it will give you that 1600 FPS with your 8 3/8 barrel.
I looked and did not find anything for the 700 with H4227. Something to consider is that not all powders work well with certain bullets. H4227 is closer to a medium burn powder and the LIL GUN and H110 are the slower burning powders that is needed for that 700 grain monster.
In order to get it going fast enough, to stabilize good, and NOT YAW,,, That heavy of a bullet would probably cause too much pressure with a medium burning powder like H4227.
FWIW: As for shooting something that heavy out of a single shot just want to pass along something. I had a H&R single shot rifle, and that thing would open with me, when I shot really big bullets, with heavy loads. Didn't matter how hard I slammed it shut either.
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Yeah I emailed Matt's bullets about their load data on the 700 gr bullets I bought from them. So far I haven't heard back from them. Just guessing they use Lil gun or H110, those are the only powders I've found load data on for the 700's.. I use H4227 on my 350 gr reloads and it works fine. I'm just having trouble finding Lil gun or H110 here locally.
 
Go look at bighorn armories model 89 500s&w lever action. Their download section has a ballistics chart giving the general numbers out of their 22" barrel vs their shorter carbine vs pistol.

The double tap 400gr wfn shoots over 2200fps with over 4400ft/lbs of energy out of their 22" barrel.

Not that this is helping you with finding hand load data, but it certainly shows the kind of power this cartridge can dish out, also makes me wonder what that 700gr brick could do with the right powder and barrel length.
 
For comparison sake, one of the biggest badest 12ga slugs is the Buckhammer 3in. mag at 1 3/8 ounces or 601gr. Has a MV of 1500fps and ME of 3232 and these are about the most powerful shotgun slugs available. I think the average slug is about 1oz. with ME around 2200 and for short range work they're considered as being serious medicine.

With these 700gr. or 1.66oz behemoths you're looking at wellllll over double that.

WOW!!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: calling4lifeGo look at bighorn armories model 89 500s&w lever action. Their download section has a ballistics chart giving the general numbers out of their 22" barrel vs their shorter carbine vs pistol.

The double tap 400gr wfn shoots over 2200fps with over 4400ft/lbs of energy out of their 22" barrel.

Not that this is helping you with finding hand load data, but it certainly shows the kind of power this cartridge can dish out, also makes me wonder what that 700gr brick could do with the right powder and barrel length.

This is interesting that you should mention all this. I have a Mod 89 The thirteenth one they built. The president and myself spoke on the phone, and he did not recommend a steady diet of the Double Tap ammo. Of course we all know that the long 700 grain will not fit in the rifle or carbine. But like you, I am curious what potential that cartridge would have in a single shot rifle. What I think would be a lot of fun,, and that is, a double rifle in this caliber slinging those heavies.
The fact that we can use heavy for caliber bullets in Pistols is wonderful. It is just a real shame that we cannot always use them in rifles especially lever actions. This has been a problem also with shorter cylinders on some guns. What has been done in the past was to use a shorter brass with the longer bullets. EX: use a 38 SP brass with the 173 grain bullet for a 357 mag in a Model 27 pistol. This is a wonderful cartridge especially for hunting. Of course this has already been done to an extent with the 500 S&W. It has been shortened to become the 500 Special and even the 500 JRH. But no one that I know of, is trying to use a 700 gr bullet. I am not sure of what powder to use, if a man uses a shortened case, but I do know, that I would want to stay with the longer S&W chamber, Cylinder, and gun, for this test.
You might contact "Ranger Rick" for some info on this.
With the aforementioned load in the 357, you are NOT giving anything up. I don't think you would be either, with a 500, but I also do not think it to be necessary ( to use a shortened case) in most senerios..but yes, mostly in rifles or a shortened cylinder.
 
Just FYI, in the .500 S & W with the 700 gr Matt's bullet there is less than 1/8 th inch left in the cylinder. You have to make sure of getting a good crimp when you seat the bullet.
 
Something else I had to try: I looked at some data for 410 ga and come up with a starting load of 16 gr's of IMR 4227, I put 2 of the cork 'wads' on top of that and filled the case with #6 shot. Thats all I had. I then ended up the top with another cork 'wad' and crimped the case and topped it off with some candle wax. Now to see what kind of pattern is next. I'll probably use #9 shot when I can get my hands on some. The number #6 shot was 225 gr's , about 1/2 oz. I punched the cork 'wads' out of some gasket material, thats one of them at the bottom of the picture.
 
An alternative to the cork on top is to use a piece of cardboard such as a primer box or a Donut box, this way the ammo can be labeled with what shot is in there. I have used clear fingernail polish, and even Primer sealer to seal the top card. I am not at home and do not remember the formula but I do remember using Titegroup for the powder. That allowed me to use a regular primer instead of the rifle primer. Some guys have even used a Gas Check to place on top. It is somewhere on the internet that someone had made, some extra long cases, and had them necked down to fit the chambers. They were long enough that they came almost to the end of the cylinder. These used a 460 caliber Gas check on the end. I would imagine that those would have been expensive.
Try giving Matt a call. I have talked over the phone several times with him.

Here is a link to some available loads even for the 700 gr.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500%20SqqqW%20Magnum&Weight=All

You may have seen this,, And there is not a lot of info on the larger bullets.
 
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