Who needs a $2500 scope????? ReALLy????

Ok, so here is my question.....Ive been talking to a lot of guys lately that have scopes in the $2000 range...NightForce, Zeiss, etc....GREAT SCOPES, no doubt...but my question is this, if im doing just fine killing coyotes at 3-400 yards with my Vortex Viper, (a fraction of the cost of these others) what benefit is it to me to stet up to a premium glass when my mediocre glass does EVERYTHING I need and a lil more? I dont see the reason for me to pay the extra $2000 for something I can get done for $500....this is not an attempt to knock anyone who has these high $$$ scopes, cause Id love to have one if I could justify it...Im just curious as to your reasoning behind paying that kinda money for a scope to shoot a coyote with???? Anyone have any input??
 
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Having never shot nor even looked through upper end scopes I can't really say, but I imagine its similar to a Nissan Versa that gets you to work and home every day compared to a Jaguar that just does it that much better.
Edited to add that I appreciate your questions on here that stimulate some discussion which helps the day go by faster.
 
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I understand the question you are asking....but I think your question doesn't have a clear answer.

Why live in a house when you can buy a much cheaper trailer and accomplish the same thing?
Why drive a nice truck when a cheap one will do the same thing?
Why waste time hunting coyotes with you can just put out snares that are much cheaper?
Why eat steak when you can get full off Ramen noodles?

I chose a $3500 thermal scope, that guys with just lights are accomplishing the same thing. Just preference I guess.
 
Why modify your truck engine to make 600 HP and 1,200 ft/lbs when 400 HP and 650 ft/lbs tows your trailer just fine?

Why put take as much weight off your motorcycle as you can and work the heads and pipes and fuel to shave a half second off your 0 to 60 time when 3 seconds is plenty fast enough?

Why build a rifle to shoot a particular bullet 4,500 fps when 4,000 fps was killing varmints just fine?

Why buy $200 a bottle scotch when $60 a bottle scotch tastes okay?

Why smoke $20 cigars when $8 cigars burn just as well?

Why spend the money and the time and effort to get a rifle that shoots genuine 1/4 MOA groups when 3/4 MOA groups will kill your quarry just as reliably?

Why, why, why?

Why does anyone do anything, or spend a dime on anything, that they don't "have to".

Because they want to?

That's good enough for me...

Why do people who don't get it, ask why? Is the more profound question...

- DAA
 
I'm old school and never cared what other folks due with their money. For me a rifle is a tool and I use it as such. Heck I still kill just about everything using Bushnell scopes and core-lokts bullets. Everyone requires different things to make them happy. What works for one person does not work for another.
 
Originally Posted By: jf1073Having never shot nor even looked through upper end scopes I can't really say, but I imagine its similar to a Nissan Versa that gets you to work and home every day compared to a Jaguar that just does it that much better.
Edited to add that I appreciate your questions on here that stimulate some discussion which helps the day go by faster.

No, Ive never looked through a high dollar scope except in a store..not in the field. .....Well, I get a lil board with waiting on new post or topics so i just kinda start my own lol...glad you enjoy them. It helps my day at the office go by better too lol
 
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Originally Posted By: BocephussI understand the question you are asking....but I think your question doesn't have a clear answer.

Why live in a house when you can buy a much cheaper trailer and accomplish the same thing?
Why drive a nice truck when a cheap one will do the same thing?
Why waste time hunting coyotes with you can just put out snares that are much cheaper?
Why eat steak when you can get full off Ramen noodles?



I chose a $3500 thermal scope, that guys with just lights are accomplishing the same thing. Just preference I guess.


Point well made, and I understand....and for the record, I like Ramen noodles lol ha
 
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Originally Posted By: DAAWhy modify your truck engine to make 600 HP and 1,200 ft/lbs when 400 HP and 650 ft/lbs tows your trailer just fine?

Why put take as much weight off your motorcycle as you can and work the heads and pipes and fuel to shave a half second off your 0 to 60 time when 3 seconds is plenty fast enough?

Why build a rifle to shoot a particular bullet 4,500 fps when 4,000 fps was killing varmints just fine?

Why buy $200 a bottle scotch when $60 a bottle scotch tastes okay?

Why smoke $20 cigars when $8 cigars burn just as well?

Why spend the money and the time and effort to get a rifle that shoots genuine 1/4 MOA groups when 3/4 MOA groups will kill your quarry just as reliably?

Why, why, why?

Why does anyone do anything, or spend a dime on anything, that they don't "have to".

Because they want to?

That's good enough for me...

Why do people who don't get it, ask why? Is the more profound question...

- DAA

I understand your point, and I understood it before you were confounded with my question...dont worry yourself to much over. No need to look too deep into it, nor be "profounded" as you say lol...and I never said, "I cant."....I just dont...big difference.
 
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Originally Posted By: GrainraiserI'm old school and never cared what other folks due with their money. For me a rifle is a tool and I use it as such. Heck I still kill just about everything using Bushnell scopes and core-lokts bullets. Everyone requires different things to make them happy. What works for one person does not work for another.

Yea, I hear ya there....my whole life i grew up calling coyotes with a Rem 700 chambered in 22 250. NO extra bells or whistles and my scope was a Nikon Buckmaster 3x9.......I had a couple buddies that were always making fun of my setup cause it was not "nice enough." "You need to get this scope. That scope is junk. You need this gun...blah blah blah."....I told them all, I kill 3 coyotes to your 1 coyote with my setup vs your facy $3000 rig....when you can match me with your set up, Ill consider changing....until then, it may be you that needs to change a few things lol....To this day, I still kill literally 5 to 1 with those guys...they dont say anything anymore. Now, they ask me to take them calling or ask me what to do.
 
The best I could guess is some of those scopes are made for a whole different class of long range shooting. There tolerances are so tight and the glass is the best of the best to stop any distortions and gather every ounce of possible light. People buy these produce because they like the idea of having the best possible sighting system. Regardless that they may not need everything the scope is designed for or offers.
I buy Leupold stuff myself because of good luck with it, and I like it. I am sure there is just as good cheaper scopes and some more expensive scopes that don't produce any more quality. But I am also sure some of the higher price glass is much better. I just don't need it for what I do, but if I could afford it I sure would put it on a gun......why not!
A KIA will get you to a designation the same as a Cadilac, but you may be more comfortable and look better getting there in the cady.
Bottom line is put on and use what "you" like and what works for you! I doubt you would kill 1 more coyote with a $2500.00 scope than with your $500.00 scope.
 
Originally Posted By: viperThe best I could guess is some of those scopes are made for a whole different class of long range shooting. There tolerances are so tight and the glass is the best of the best to stop any distortions and gather every ounce of possible light. People buy these produce because they like the idea of having the best possible sighting system. Regardless that they may not need everything the scope is designed for or offers.
I buy Leupold stuff myself because of good luck with it, and I like it. I am sure there is just as good cheaper scopes and some more expensive scopes that don't produce any more quality. But I am also sure some of the higher price glass is much better. I just don't need it for what I do, but if I could afford it I sure would put it on a gun......why not!
A KIA will get you to a designation the same as a Cadilac, but you may be more comfortable and look better getting there in the cady.
Bottom line is put on and use what "you" like and what works for you! I doubt you would kill 1 more coyote with a $2500.00 scope than with your $500.00 scope.

I agree 100%......each to his own i guess...and again, I am NOT KNOCKING ANYONE that has these nice scopes, cause Id LOVE to have one...i just cant justify it for myself...it would not increase my kill ratio at all...would it look better? sure! would it be a little more clear? sure! Is it made better? Maybe!
 
I wish I could be more of a "if it aint broke don't fix it guy"..........
but I'm constantly tinkering around on the low $ end of things, as in different bullets, switching guns, sticks, chair, etc.......
 
Originally Posted By: jf1073I wish I could be more of a "if it aint broke don't fix it guy"..........
but I'm constantly tinkering around on the low $ end of things, as in different bullets, switching guns, sticks, chair, etc.......

Im do ok with not monkeying with things too much once they work good...i try a lot of things, but once i settle on something, its pretty much concrete for me....well, except bullets...im always monkeying with loads and bullets trying to get things to shoot just a lil tighter but other than that........The only thing Im SUPER ANAL about on my guns, is my trigger....the trigger will sell me on a gun..if the has a sweet trigger, ill love the gun..if its crap trigger, ill wont hunt with it til its fixed...i like 2 lb single stage trigger on my varmint rifles.
 
i've always looked high end scopes the same way as i do high end cars.


if you can afford them and want to spend your $$ that way, props to you. i aint gonna hate about it, and more than likely if i see one i'm gonna spend time admiring it.


do i need one to get what i do with shooting done? nope, not at this time. which is why i dont have one. for me its a measure of practicality.

i'm also worried (much like my experience with my first VXIII) that once i actually shoot behind one... ill be ruined for low end optics for good lol
 
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCallerOriginally Posted By: jf1073I wish I could be more of a "if it aint broke don't fix it guy"..........
but I'm constantly tinkering around on the low $ end of things, as in different bullets, switching guns, sticks, chair, etc.......

Im do ok with not monkeying with things too much once they work good...i try a lot of things, but once i settle on something, its pretty much concrete for me....well, except bullets...im always monkeying with loads and bullets trying to get things to shoot just a lil tighter but other than that........The only thing Im SUPER ANAL about on my guns, is my trigger....the trigger will sell me on a gun..if the has a sweet trigger, ill love the gun..if its crap trigger, ill wont hunt with it til its fixed...i like 2 lb single stage trigger on my varmint rifles.

I'm just the opposite unfortunately. When something isn't working I bang away with or at it or whatever until it does but if something starts working great I always convince myself to try something else. My experience with women has been very similar.
 
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller
I understand your point...

I'm not too sure you do.

It's pretty simple. Those high end scopes offer performance and features that $500 scopes don't have. Some people either want or need those features and performance and are willing to pay for it.

I do own some high end scopes, but they are on colony varmint rifles, not any of my calling rigs. They were worth the money, to me, at the time, for that application. They offered features and performance not available in lower priced scopes and I wanted those features and performance enough to be willing to pay for them. And, it's not like I didn't have plenty of bad experiences trying to use $500 scopes in that same application. I used to say back then that the reason Leopold's warranty department was so good was because they got so much practice.

I wouldn't put those particular $2K scopes on a calling rifle though, even if they were free. They would be terrible for the application.

Spent a couple days hunting coyote with a $2,500 USO scope this past winter. Very nice scope, does what it does very well, but it's not what I'd put on one of my own calling rifles either. Price not being a factor. For my wants and needs, the reliability and durability assets that scope provides are not worth the size and weight penalties that accompany those assets. I'm not that hard on my calling rifles. I don't twirl knobs on my calling rifles. I don't hunt at night. I don't want anything more busy than a simple duplex reticle on my calling rig. So, that scope just isn't for me, for that application.

But, for a lot of guys, the size and weight aren't any penalty at all. And they do want, or perceive a need for the quality, reliability, repeatability, and durability that scope provides (which, it is vastly superior in those categories to any $500 scope, period).

I've tried to make my calling rigs as close to perfect for my own needs as I can, with price not being much of a consideration. At the end of the day, if you add up the fuel, the wear and tear on the vehicles, the time, the money I've spent on other rifle components, the custom handloading gear, the clothes, the calls, etc., etc., etc., Even spending $2,500 for a scope that goes on an every stand main squeeze and is going to get used and appreciated for decades, $2,500 is just ants in the afterbirth.

All my calling rigs wear moderately priced scopes though. Not because they were affordable, but because for my application I thought they represented a good balance of quality, durability, optical quality, weight and size. I'd be willing to spend a lot more for a scope that I thought was a significant improvement in two or three of those areas, but all the really high end glass seems to be oriented towards the tacticool crowd and built to pound a nail and hold a zero. I don't pound nails with my scopes and don't want hang one heavy enough to do so on top of my calling rifles.



- DAA
 

Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller I dont see the reason for me to pay the extra $2000 for something I can get done for $500

I don't mean to be rude, but not everyone is like you nor thinks like you. Different strokes for different folks, right!

I often hear that someone doesn't need this or that. Sometimes it's not a matter of need but a matter of want. I have heard the saying as well that "you don't need an AR for hunting." Truth is I don't and I did quite well for most of my life without one, but I sure do like it and enjoy it. It does things that my bolt rifles can't do.

Another good example is my use of a 7mm STW for antelope and mule deer (and recent hog) vs some smaller caliber. I even had a member comment on it that his choice (25-06) is plenty good enough, insinuating (not specifically stated) that my choice is overkill. That's true. I have taken several antelope with a 25-06 and had great results, but when that STW roars, they hit the ground pronto as if pole-axed. I love it. The good news is I can use what I like and let others use what they like.

Another example is night vision. I have a home-made night vision outfit that will rival Gen 3 in clarity and brightness (but does need an illuminator). My outfit cost me slightly over $200 and has accounted for coyotes, fox, skunks, raccoons etc. I don't need a Gen 3 device for the type of hunting I do, "BUT" I want one. It's hard for me to justify the money when I really don't need it, but hopefully I will be able to enjoy one at some point in my life.

As to the high-dollar scopes, I too have never looked through one, but I have an opinion for what it's worth, that NightForce for instance, is a well-calibrated scope and if I were into extreme precision and repeatability, I would want one. My Leupolds and Nikons have served me plenty well enough and I don't imagine I will ever purchase a NightForce, but for those guys who need precision or just to satisfy a want, then my hat is off to them.

My advice is to use what satisfies you.



 
Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller
I understand your point...

I'm not too sure you do.

It's pretty simple. Those high end scopes offer performance and features that $500 scopes don't have. Some people either want or need those features and performance and are willing to pay for it.

I do own some high end scopes, but they are on colony varmint rifles, not any of my calling rigs. They were worth the money, to me, at the time, for that application. They offered features and performance not available in lower priced scopes and I wanted those features and performance enough to be willing to pay for them. And, it's not like I didn't have plenty of bad experiences trying to use $500 scopes in that same application. I used to say back then that the reason Leopold's warranty department was so good was because they got so much practice.

I wouldn't put those particular $2K scopes on a calling rifle though, even if they were free. They would be terrible for the application.

Spent a couple days hunting coyote with a $2,500 USO scope this past winter. Very nice scope, does what it does very well, but it's not what I'd put on one of my own calling rifles either. Price not being a factor. For my wants and needs, the reliability and durability assets that scope provides are not worth the size and weight penalties that accompany those assets. I'm not that hard on my calling rifles. I don't twirl knobs on my calling rifles. I don't hunt at night. I don't want anything more busy than a simple duplex reticle on my calling rig. So, that scope just isn't for me, for that application.

But, for a lot of guys, the size and weight aren't any penalty at all. And they do want, or perceive a need for the quality, reliability, repeatability, and durability that scope provides (which, it is vastly superior in those categories to any $500 scope, period).

I've tried to make my calling rigs as close to perfect for my own needs as I can, with price not being much of a consideration. At the end of the day, if you add up the fuel, the wear and tear on the vehicles, the time, the money I've spent on other rifle components, the custom handloading gear, the clothes, the calls, etc., etc., etc., Even spending $2,500 for a scope that goes on an every stand main squeeze and is going to get used and appreciated for decades, $2,500 is just ants in the afterbirth.

All my calling rigs wear moderately priced scopes though. Not because they were affordable, but because for my application I thought they represented a good balance of quality, durability, optical quality, weight and size. I'd be willing to spend a lot more for a scope that I thought was a significant improvement in two or three of those areas, but all the really high end glass seems to be oriented towards the tacticool crowd and built to pound a nail and hold a zero. I don't pound nails with my scopes and don't want hang one heavy enough to do so on top of my calling rifles.



- DAA


Very good insight bro...I must agree 100%....that being said, what kind of scope do you use for your calling rig?
 
I agree with 6mm: it would fall into the category of "want" and not "need". Last year I purchased a Nightforce ATACR., which was right around $2600. Did I need it? No, but I sure wanted it!!! The time I bought it, I needed no justification for purchasing it. And now, In fact, I don't even have it mounted on any of my predator weapons. This applies to everything made. If you can afford it, go for it. Right now my hunt bud has a high dollar FLIR scope. I looked into getting one, but I was looking at gen's that were in the $10,000 range. Do I "need" it????. As of now, "yes"....lol, will I be getting it anytime soon, more than likely "no". For me, I just can't justify that cost for hunting something you can't (won't) eat. And I'll be man enough to say it!!!! "THE WIFE"!!!
 
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