A lot of guys here think quarter size group are good,,, dang i was happy at dime size and a little disappointed when i got nickle size,,, quarter size i would talk sending the gun back to the maker!!!Any one hear feel the same way ? Even my first AR was sent back for shooting a little over 1 inch @100 with military ball ammo!!!!
talking group size at PM
- Thread starter Goe Blow
- Start date
DocHalliday
New member
As a self avowed accuracy snob and former bench rest shooter, I'm pretty happy if my big game rifles are shooting 1/2-3/4 MOA. For my varmint guns, I like 1/2 or less MOA. Bench rest rifles aren't usually even competitive if they won't shoot .250 thousandths or better (a lot better) at 100 yards. That said, I think that an AR is doing really,really well to shoot 1 MOA with military ball, especially M855. Of course I'd expect better with premium ammo in many AR's (configuration dependent).
In the end, it's all about what's acceptable to you and if the rifle does what you need it to do and in the conditions you expect to encounter.
In the end, it's all about what's acceptable to you and if the rifle does what you need it to do and in the conditions you expect to encounter.
BOBTAILS
Active member
Originally Posted By: Dixiedog1Only time no rifle a person owns will shoot over one inch at 1oo is on the internet. If you think all rifles are capable of shooting dime size groups at 100 yards then you are going to be very disappointed.
+1, alot of companies promise MOA at 100 yards which 1 MOA at 100 yards equals 1.047 inches. So good luck getting a manufacture to take back a factory gun that shoots quarter sized groups at 100 yards.
+1, alot of companies promise MOA at 100 yards which 1 MOA at 100 yards equals 1.047 inches. So good luck getting a manufacture to take back a factory gun that shoots quarter sized groups at 100 yards.
Buster Hindend
New member
How many shots in the group are we talking, one?
Widow maker 223
Active member
An inch with ball ammo and you sent it back! That qualifies for a head examination.
Tim...
New member
Originally Posted By: Widow maker 223An inch with ball ammo and you sent it back! That qualifies for a head examination.
Yeah, I think I'd of told him to pound sand on that one. I like a rifle that isn't finicky about what you feed it. That said.. just because it is finicky doesn't mean it won't shoot with some load development.
Yeah, I think I'd of told him to pound sand on that one. I like a rifle that isn't finicky about what you feed it. That said.. just because it is finicky doesn't mean it won't shoot with some load development.
Predburner
New member
Ya know how to tell when an Op is full of [beeep].....
BOBTAILS
Active member
Originally Posted By: reddog964Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: PredburnerYa know how to tell when an Op is full of [beeep].....
Any time he types?
Actually there are a couple competing for the number one spot with a third in the running ...
It's a race for the number one spot
Any time he types?
It's a race for the number one spot
ninehorses
New member
IME... There are FEW factory rifles that will hold a 1 moa, 5 shot group, every time you pick it up. An even fewer number of good old boys that can even shoot a .25 aggrate for five groups on one target. Much less, that can do it when the wind is blowing. Many of the posted, measured groups, many times, are mis-measured, or someone just likes to fudge. I think anyone that wants to prove me wrong is free to post up a Redfield target with five, five shot groups on it. Measuring the outside and subtracting the caliber is fudging. Most bullet holes, even the black ring that surrounds it are smaller than the bullet caliber. Paper stretches, shoot one off by itself and measure it. Then subtract that number.
Do you adjust powder charge because of the temperature? Do you use several wind flags? How good are you at reading mirage?
Even good ball ammo sucks, because of the mass produced FMJ bullet it uses. Sending a rifle back for not holding a 1 moa group with ball ammo? Crazy! I have a 16" carbine that will hold a .5-.7 with tuned loads, but this an exception. I have seen a Shillen barreled AR that was a honest .25 rifle with tuned loads. They do exist! But... they are a rare animal.
Do you adjust powder charge because of the temperature? Do you use several wind flags? How good are you at reading mirage?
Even good ball ammo sucks, because of the mass produced FMJ bullet it uses. Sending a rifle back for not holding a 1 moa group with ball ammo? Crazy! I have a 16" carbine that will hold a .5-.7 with tuned loads, but this an exception. I have seen a Shillen barreled AR that was a honest .25 rifle with tuned loads. They do exist! But... they are a rare animal.
Varminterror
New member
Originally Posted By: Goe Blow A lot of guys here think quarter size group are good,,, dang i was happy at dime size and a little disappointed when i got nickle size,,, quarter size i would talk sending the gun back to the maker!!!Any one hear feel the same way ? Even my first AR was sent back for shooting a little over 1 inch @100 with military ball ammo!!!!
I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you call a firearm manufacturer to arrange a return of a rifle because it shot sub-MOA (0.955" = quarter size group). If I were the rep, I'd fall out of my chair laughing.
What a heel...
I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you call a firearm manufacturer to arrange a return of a rifle because it shot sub-MOA (0.955" = quarter size group). If I were the rep, I'd fall out of my chair laughing.
What a heel...
Tim Neitzke
New member
Guy Lefebvre
New member
I owned a Mossberg MVP and couldn't get that 5.56 rifle to shoot better than 1.75 MOA with 55 gn FMJs, so I sold it, and bought a Savage predator hunter M11 and worked up a load for this rifle. Best group so far, is 5 rounds .5 MOA with H335 26.0 gns, IVI 08 cases fed primer and Hornady 40 gn Vmax seated 2.219 COL. I chronographed this load and got an avg of 3450 fps. I've just started ladder testing with Varget, so there can be much potential here.
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760You were getting 1.75" with bulk made FMJ's and weren't happy? Did you ever try any better ammo? Why did you not load for the Mossberg, but do now for the Savage?
I will shoot my very best barrels with bulk 556 55 FMJ's I RARELY have one ever come close to under an MOA. You feed them virtually any handload and they beat that going away. The stuff is cheap for a reason and accuracy in this case is pretty well relative to the price.
The best one I have is an OLY UltraMatch that will do 5/8's with LC stuff but that is a rare bird. It will do 0.3 with homebrew.
Greg
I will shoot my very best barrels with bulk 556 55 FMJ's I RARELY have one ever come close to under an MOA. You feed them virtually any handload and they beat that going away. The stuff is cheap for a reason and accuracy in this case is pretty well relative to the price.
The best one I have is an OLY UltraMatch that will do 5/8's with LC stuff but that is a rare bird. It will do 0.3 with homebrew.
Greg
