223 Twist Rate 1/9 vs 45 grain JHP (Winchester USA)

CalCoyote

CalCoyote

New member

I just purchased a new Savage 223 that has a 24" bull barrel with a 1/9 twist. I am expiermenting with Black Hills and Ultrmax to find a good shooting inexpensive round. I thought I could go down to the 45 grain JHP put out by Winchester (white box USA). Can I? Will a 45 grain bullet stableize in a 1/9 twist? Do I have to stay over 50 grains?

I realize that a heavier bullet should retain its energy for longer than a light "spitwad" type of bullet, but Winchester ballistics at winchester.com show these puppies coming out at 3600 out the muzzle and still retaining mv of 2085 @ 300 yards which is almost 200 fps faster than most of the 55 grain factory rounds you can buy.

These are also fairly inexpensive when purchased in bulk. BUT, will they shoot well with a 1/9 twist rate?

Yeah, Yeah, I know I need to reload, but I am probably a few monthes away from shelling out the $$ for a rockchucker kit. I need to take care of Xmas for the kids first.
 
Cal, that bullet is one of the more accurate factory loads I have tried in my A.R. 1/9 twist,but just has a 16" barrell. Very very consistant sub moa groups when fires from a bench. Hope This info helps. Also, it is still lethal on prairie dogs past 400 yds. (even from my short barrel). If your longer barrel does not like it, try black hills blue box 52 grain hp. aprox $17.00 for box of 50.
 
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My bushmaster varminter ar really likes the winchester white box 45gr.....I can shoot the black hills blue box 55gr soft point and get the same groupings...I have a 1-9 twist.....stump
 
CalCoyote,
Yes they will be fine from a 9 twister.
Two things to note:
1. 3600 fps is joke. Everybody I have heard of that has put them through a crono gets high 3200s - high 3300s.

2. I strongly advise against using this rounds for coyotes. A lot of folks with say differently but I have had bad results using them with a 1 in 12 twist gun. 1 in 9 would only be worse.

To further my point, a friend of mine shot a small, aproximately 5 pound, four legged predator in my front yard at the request of my mother. (should be enough info to say what it was) Range was about 65 yards, broadside, using a 1 in 8 twist AR. Bullet did not exit on the chest of a critter less than 2 inches wide. Not the bullet I want use again on a coyote.
Matt
 
I'll be one of the very first to disagree with you Matt. I've had EXCELLENT results using the 45 grain WWB on coyotes at anywhere from 10 to 250 yards. I'm not just talking one or two coyotes here. Killed my 20th coyote of the year this morning with em. Used those little 45 grainers all last year also. Very accurate outta my 1 in 10 twist barrel and not one, I repeat, not one coyote have I had to track or put two rounds into. Sure some were heart shot and running dead, but I guarantee they didn't run very far. I'll keep using em. Yes I will. By the way, they are a very fur friendly round if you hit em anywhere solid.
 
Calcoyote ,
Welcome to predatormasters!

The answer as already stated is yes you'll be fine with the 45 gr. ammo.
I think you might have the twist thing backwards.A 1-9 twist [1 bullet revolution per 9 inchs] is a fast twist barrel able to shoot the heavy match type bullets 68-69 gr..
The worry of stabilazation is with a 1-12 twist will not twist the bullet enough to stabilize it.
The faster the twist- the heavier bullet it can stabilize.So your gun will shoot the 45 gr at higher rpm than a 1-12 twist,making the bullet come apart more than a 1-12 twist.
I've killed many pd's ,crows ,and a few coyotes with that bullet out of a 22-250.They were drt .
Matt is right they are explosive but i consider that a good thing ,> no fur damage.I killed a big badger in wyoming at 275 yd ,went about two inch ,DOWN.Best of luck to you and your new savage they are a very nice gun!! Mike
 
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Calcoyote,
I shoot a Savage 12bvss in .223 and my favorite bullet is a 40gr V-Max I load. It shoots an almost true one hole group of .060 inches at 100 yards. It is has great knock down power and rarely will exit unless I aim incorrectly. Those 45gr rounds should do just great. By the way Welcome to the Forum...ShooterJohn /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I fully agree with Doggin, I like a bullet that stays in coyotes ! No exit holes is perfect and no energy wasted. This is what the big magnum guys don't get' they shoot through something, then decide they need more bullet or gun.
A perfect bullet will expend all energy inside, if they do that you DO NOT need big exit and blood trails.
My 2 cents worth . PS I like the Hornady SX .
Richard Grantham
 
My Tikka has a 1 in 8 twist and the WWB shot as good or better than anything else I've tried so far (about .5 in group).
 
Doggin Coyotes,
sounds like they are working alot better for you than me.
I stopped using them after putting 4 of them into 3 yotes.
1 was a headshot - messy
2 was broadside and splashed on the ribcage. Lucky I didn't lose that one and hide damage was bad
3. was into the back on the headshot coyote b/c it was night and I wasn't sure where I hit it. Blew up on the spine, again more hide damage.
4. Gutshot on a running yote. DRT with no damage.
May not be the most inclusive test but 2 splashes in 4 hits convinced me to go back to a bullet that penitrates a bit more. I'm all for keeping the bullet in the coyote but I want it to at least get in the coyote before coming apart.

Not saying they aren't a great little round. We have put several hundred of them into prairie dogs, crows, pigeons, ground hogs, and other small varmints. I just find them too explosive for use on yotes. 55 grain soft points or Ballistic tips are what I use and recomend. Also looking at trying the 60 V-Max.
Just my opinion.
 
If your a fur hunter, the winny white box 45 grain jhp is not for you. I hit one quartering twards me between the centerline of it's chest and in front if the left shoulder, and it left a hole approximately 2 inches wide and 3 1/2 to 4 inches deep.

t/c223encore.
 
I am not a Fur Hunter.? Just predator Control on the Deer eating Yotes.? These 45 Gr. JHP Ammo should do great out of my new Marlin XL7 Bolt action Rifle.? Great price also. I really love the V-MAX Bullets for Coyotes.? Once I start to reload again.? Those will be the bullets I use.
 
I can't get anything over 50 to group in my 1:9 twist. I shoot the Winchester white box 45gr. JHP's and 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips. I've only had to shoot one coyote twice with the 45 grain bullets and I really don't think he probably even needed it but he got two anyways. I shot a smaller female coyote dead square in the chest and knocked her over backwards and somehow she managed to get up and run 20 yards or so before falling over dead. I shot a mangy coyote from 200 yards with them also and he ran a little ways but not far. I knew he was gross lookin so I didn't walk out there to see where I shot him. I've never tore a coyote up with them though (unless the one with mange was tore up),so that's my go to round to run out of my AR. As far as I can tell they're very fur friendly. And besides the coyotes I talked about I've never seen them not kill one immediately.
 
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