Night vision and flash suppressors
- Thread starter Darknight
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Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: DarknightI'm looking at a Nemesis 2+ or possibly a D740 gen 3 QS scope and am curious if a flash suppressor on the barrel is warranted to minimize any temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after a shot.
What do you guys think, is it warranted?
A good question one I have personally worked through for several years.
Of course let me preface this all by saying, the best flash hider is a suppressor of course and if you live in a state where they are allowed, I HIGHLY recommend it.
With that said, even modern Gen 3 autogated power supplied units which mitigate high light will have issues with bright sudden flashes and also modern burn or lack thereof based on barrel length and ammo used if not using an effective flash hider. This effect is all seen as smoke or fog during rapid fire. We see this effect more with PVS-14 types mounted on a gun with 1.1x magnification but 4x and 6x NVG's still can have this fog effect making it difficult for follow-up shots at times with rapid fire.
With some Gen 2 devices, if the flash is high enough they can flicker and also shut off due to most of the ABC, auto brightness control protection they have. Gen 3 also have this protection, but it takes much more high light to shut these down due to their AG power supplies I mentioned above that mitigate high light VERY well. Another reason Gen 3 is so much better than Gen 1 or Gen 2 others dealers never seem to talk about this important aspect.
When we train folks in the use of NV, we suggest moving laterally while shooting to mitigate this effect at times, but this of course is in a tactical environment in which you never want to stay stationary in a gun fight for LE tactical officers.
Some good flash hiders out there we have tested and are some of the best are B.E. Meyers, Smith Vortex along with AAC. These units put out a tiny spark of flash, but as I mentioned earlier, un-burnt powder still may cloud up things under rapid fire. These scenarios of course play out with a semi auto gas gun of the AR variants vs. bolt guns in which these have a much less pronounced effect.
Here's a decent vid showing how little flash (naked eye) some of these good flash surpressors produce.
Hope this helps a bit.
Vic
What do you guys think, is it warranted?
A good question one I have personally worked through for several years.
Of course let me preface this all by saying, the best flash hider is a suppressor of course and if you live in a state where they are allowed, I HIGHLY recommend it.
With that said, even modern Gen 3 autogated power supplied units which mitigate high light will have issues with bright sudden flashes and also modern burn or lack thereof based on barrel length and ammo used if not using an effective flash hider. This effect is all seen as smoke or fog during rapid fire. We see this effect more with PVS-14 types mounted on a gun with 1.1x magnification but 4x and 6x NVG's still can have this fog effect making it difficult for follow-up shots at times with rapid fire.
With some Gen 2 devices, if the flash is high enough they can flicker and also shut off due to most of the ABC, auto brightness control protection they have. Gen 3 also have this protection, but it takes much more high light to shut these down due to their AG power supplies I mentioned above that mitigate high light VERY well. Another reason Gen 3 is so much better than Gen 1 or Gen 2 others dealers never seem to talk about this important aspect.
When we train folks in the use of NV, we suggest moving laterally while shooting to mitigate this effect at times, but this of course is in a tactical environment in which you never want to stay stationary in a gun fight for LE tactical officers.
Some good flash hiders out there we have tested and are some of the best are B.E. Meyers, Smith Vortex along with AAC. These units put out a tiny spark of flash, but as I mentioned earlier, un-burnt powder still may cloud up things under rapid fire. These scenarios of course play out with a semi auto gas gun of the AR variants vs. bolt guns in which these have a much less pronounced effect.
Here's a decent vid showing how little flash (naked eye) some of these good flash surpressors produce.
Hope this helps a bit.
Vic
Darknight
Member
Thanks for sharing that video, Vic. Do all Gen 2 devices lack autogating? If I were to use a Gen 2 device for calling predators would the simple presence of using the device near barnyard lights, radio tower beacons and other types of ambient lighting typically found around a barnyard cause damage to a Gen 2 device?
I see the Nemesis has auto brightness control but I'm not sure if that would be the same thing as autogating?
I see the Nemesis has auto brightness control but I'm not sure if that would be the same thing as autogating?
HTRN57
New member
Originally Posted By: DarknightI'm looking at a Nemesis 2+ or possibly a D740 gen 3 QS scope and am curious if a flash suppressor on the barrel is warranted to minimize any temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after a shot.
What do you guys think, is it warranted?
Flash suppressors are good when hunting at night to minimize the bright light impact to your NV device, however, they are not necessary. The Gen 3 ABC cutoff is so quick that you won't even notice that it happened, therefore, followup shots are not a problem due to activation of the ABC mechanism on Gen 3 tubes. I have not heard of it being a problem on Gen 2 devices either but I don't have as much direct experience using those devices in the field. If anyone using the Gen 2 Nemesis has had an issue with muzzle flash causing a shut down sufficient to interfere with a followup shot please chime in. Followup shots can be an issue if you are using an IR device as it can reflect off of the firearm smoke plume causing your image to white-out. This is more of an issue when there is no wind or you are shooting with the wind. Best practice is to make the first shot count which happens more times than not for most folks. An autogated tube is simply a feature added to minimize blooming. Following is the technical definition:
Auto-Gated Power Supply
When the power supply is "auto-gated," it means the system is turning itself on and off at a very rapid rate. This, combined with a thin film attached to the microchannel plate (an ion barrier) reduces blooming. While "blooming" can be noticeably less on systems with a thin film layer, systems with thicker film layers can be perfectly acceptable depending on the end user's application.
For hunting purposes, the blooming you encounter will be limited to distant pole lights and vehicles. Due to the fact that they are distant, they generally don't cause problems with locating predators/hogs or with shooting. Autogating does help but does not eliminate the blooming affect altogether. Therefore, an older non-autogated tube will work very well for hunting purposes. Kevin
What do you guys think, is it warranted?
Flash suppressors are good when hunting at night to minimize the bright light impact to your NV device, however, they are not necessary. The Gen 3 ABC cutoff is so quick that you won't even notice that it happened, therefore, followup shots are not a problem due to activation of the ABC mechanism on Gen 3 tubes. I have not heard of it being a problem on Gen 2 devices either but I don't have as much direct experience using those devices in the field. If anyone using the Gen 2 Nemesis has had an issue with muzzle flash causing a shut down sufficient to interfere with a followup shot please chime in. Followup shots can be an issue if you are using an IR device as it can reflect off of the firearm smoke plume causing your image to white-out. This is more of an issue when there is no wind or you are shooting with the wind. Best practice is to make the first shot count which happens more times than not for most folks. An autogated tube is simply a feature added to minimize blooming. Following is the technical definition:
Auto-Gated Power Supply
When the power supply is "auto-gated," it means the system is turning itself on and off at a very rapid rate. This, combined with a thin film attached to the microchannel plate (an ion barrier) reduces blooming. While "blooming" can be noticeably less on systems with a thin film layer, systems with thicker film layers can be perfectly acceptable depending on the end user's application.
For hunting purposes, the blooming you encounter will be limited to distant pole lights and vehicles. Due to the fact that they are distant, they generally don't cause problems with locating predators/hogs or with shooting. Autogating does help but does not eliminate the blooming affect altogether. Therefore, an older non-autogated tube will work very well for hunting purposes. Kevin
Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: DarknightThanks for sharing that video, Vic. Do all Gen 2 devices lack autogating? If I were to use a Gen 2 device for calling predators would the simple presence of using the device near barnyard lights, radio tower beacons and other types of ambient lighting typically found around a barnyard cause damage to a Gen 2 device?
I see the Nemesis has auto brightness control but I'm not sure if that would be the same thing as autogating?
You're welcome.
No Gen 2 devices have AG power supplies, most modern day Gen 3 devices do, but Gen 2 do have Automatic Brightness Control (ABC). As for the other statement about Flash Suppressors are not needed and that AG power supplies are only added for minimizing blooming (?) is not the only the reason they were developed from ITT but do much more than that.
Several years ago, we were a test bed of several rifle platforms on the effects of flash based on many variables which I outlined in my original post. Another factor I did not mention that tube life that is exposed to high light also decreases tube life by as much as 10% over the life of the tube and before AG power supplies, the tube life when exposed to high light was at a much higher loss! Now with Gen 3 units having an approx. 30K life span, there is still plenty of life left. With Gen 2 systems at 2500-5000hrs with no AG power supplies regulating any high light as efficiently it's best to protect them with flash suppressors of some kind. It's cheap insurance so why not? Based on our technical data and also from ITT and L3 in which we work with their engineers very close with our testing it's foolish to say a flash hider is not needed to say the least. It's your hard earned money so why not do everything you can to protect your investment?
We've had plenty of Gen 2 systems cut off (shut down) with bright flash with ABC vs. Gen 3 systems with AG power supplies. It takes a huge amount of sudden flash to kick off a modern AG'd Gen 3. We've tested these Gen 2 devices for MANY years with the effect of flash and bright light vs. Gen 3. Not saying they are bad systems, they just need better flash and bright light protection vs. modern Gen 3.
Getting back to expand a bit...It's the autogated power supplies that actually turn on/off the power supply to the tube in some cases thousands of times a second (thus, why they are called Autogated Power supplies)...They regulate the actual light entering the tube adjust accordingly. ABC, auto brightness control is simply the electronics that protect the unit from bright light and actually shut the unit down in case the electronics incur very bright light, they will also decrease the resolution when dimming down vs. AG power supplies (see below). What the ABC does not do automatically is turn on and off a tube in this fashion, autogated power supplies do this and Gen 2 devices do not.
Another nice feature of modern AG power supplies is when the the unit is dimming down to compensate, resolution loss is also minimized vs. standard ABC. It's no joy having a 64-72LP tube resolution only to have ABC kick with no AG power supply and your resolution goes down to 42LP or so! The Mil guys hated the ABC only feature years ago and another reason AG power supplies were developed to assist on the battle field with bright flash and resolution.
If you ever have the chance to compare a Gen 3 to a Gen 2 when they dim down due to high light you can see the drastic difference in resolution between the two. Pretty neat to see. You can also do the same thing with older Gen 3's with no AG power supplies with just standard ABC vs their modern Generation 3 counterparts with AG PS's. There was a video and pics from another forum years ago where someone captured the effect. It was pretty cool to see.
In closing, for your purposes of ambient lighting nearby, as long as you do not train your system on these light sources you should be fine. Either way, based on the other points I've brought up from many years of actual testing, not just reading someone else's technical paper, get a flash hider, it's cheap insurance no matter what tube you're using. Hope this helps a bit more.
Please feel free to PM me if I can assist with any other gear choices based on your requirements. Be glad to assist.
Vic
I see the Nemesis has auto brightness control but I'm not sure if that would be the same thing as autogating?
You're welcome.
No Gen 2 devices have AG power supplies, most modern day Gen 3 devices do, but Gen 2 do have Automatic Brightness Control (ABC). As for the other statement about Flash Suppressors are not needed and that AG power supplies are only added for minimizing blooming (?) is not the only the reason they were developed from ITT but do much more than that.
Several years ago, we were a test bed of several rifle platforms on the effects of flash based on many variables which I outlined in my original post. Another factor I did not mention that tube life that is exposed to high light also decreases tube life by as much as 10% over the life of the tube and before AG power supplies, the tube life when exposed to high light was at a much higher loss! Now with Gen 3 units having an approx. 30K life span, there is still plenty of life left. With Gen 2 systems at 2500-5000hrs with no AG power supplies regulating any high light as efficiently it's best to protect them with flash suppressors of some kind. It's cheap insurance so why not? Based on our technical data and also from ITT and L3 in which we work with their engineers very close with our testing it's foolish to say a flash hider is not needed to say the least. It's your hard earned money so why not do everything you can to protect your investment?
We've had plenty of Gen 2 systems cut off (shut down) with bright flash with ABC vs. Gen 3 systems with AG power supplies. It takes a huge amount of sudden flash to kick off a modern AG'd Gen 3. We've tested these Gen 2 devices for MANY years with the effect of flash and bright light vs. Gen 3. Not saying they are bad systems, they just need better flash and bright light protection vs. modern Gen 3.
Getting back to expand a bit...It's the autogated power supplies that actually turn on/off the power supply to the tube in some cases thousands of times a second (thus, why they are called Autogated Power supplies)...They regulate the actual light entering the tube adjust accordingly. ABC, auto brightness control is simply the electronics that protect the unit from bright light and actually shut the unit down in case the electronics incur very bright light, they will also decrease the resolution when dimming down vs. AG power supplies (see below). What the ABC does not do automatically is turn on and off a tube in this fashion, autogated power supplies do this and Gen 2 devices do not.
Another nice feature of modern AG power supplies is when the the unit is dimming down to compensate, resolution loss is also minimized vs. standard ABC. It's no joy having a 64-72LP tube resolution only to have ABC kick with no AG power supply and your resolution goes down to 42LP or so! The Mil guys hated the ABC only feature years ago and another reason AG power supplies were developed to assist on the battle field with bright flash and resolution.
If you ever have the chance to compare a Gen 3 to a Gen 2 when they dim down due to high light you can see the drastic difference in resolution between the two. Pretty neat to see. You can also do the same thing with older Gen 3's with no AG power supplies with just standard ABC vs their modern Generation 3 counterparts with AG PS's. There was a video and pics from another forum years ago where someone captured the effect. It was pretty cool to see.
In closing, for your purposes of ambient lighting nearby, as long as you do not train your system on these light sources you should be fine. Either way, based on the other points I've brought up from many years of actual testing, not just reading someone else's technical paper, get a flash hider, it's cheap insurance no matter what tube you're using. Hope this helps a bit more.
Please feel free to PM me if I can assist with any other gear choices based on your requirements. Be glad to assist.
Vic
HTRN57
New member
One last word on autogating.....it is basically an added feature designed to assist military and law enforcement who work consistently within or very near to metropolitan areas. As Victor pointed out, it also assists with maintaining resolution of the NV scene in semi-bright street lighted areas. For most hunting scenes, autogating is only activated from distant security lights or vehicles to reduce blooming slightly. You will have no resolution issues within this type of setting nor with muzzle flash. In my business for both hunting and filming purposes, I use both autogated and non-autogated systems and can see no noticeable difference in performance between the two when out in the field. I seriously doubt that any hunter would either unless you are hunting within metropolitan areas such as an animal control specialist might be. In summary....if you are using an older system that is non-autogated and believe that trading up to a newer autogated system will improve your NV hunting scene you will likely be disappointed. Kevin
HTRN57
New member
With respect to using a flash suppressor, the original post asks "is a flash suppressor on the barrel warranted to minimize any temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after a shot". The answer is no because there is no temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after the shot. This is because the ABC mechanism within both Gen 2 and Gen 3 devices prevents it. Kevin
SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: HTRN57With respect to using a flash suppressor, the original post asks "is a flash suppressor on the barrel warranted to minimize any temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after a shot". The answer is no because there is no temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after the shot. This is because the ABC mechanism within both Gen 2 and Gen 3 devices prevents it. Kevin
That has not been my experience with any of my GENII NV gear and NV lasers, as the autogating shuts down the scope momentarily and the bright flash is a whiteout, so no way to attempt a second shot, this is on both 5.56mm and 7.62mm with 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 16", and 18" barrels. The only rifle I use that does not affect the NV gear at night is my .22 long rifle Ruger 10-22 with a muzzle flash suppressor.
Of course, the size of the flash is strictly dependent on the type of gunpowders you are using, the calibers of your rifles, and the length of your barrels on your rifles, none of which were stated in the OPs original post. You can mute down the flash somewhat using the proper powders for you caliber, length of barrel, and the size and weight of the cartridge you are using. In my experience, however, the majority of commercial grade ammunition is NOT specifically tuned for muzzle flash reduction, some military grade ammunition is designed to reduce muzzle signature but still requires a real good flash suppressor with NV gear. There are only a handful of real military grade flash suppressors on the market, most of them are junk. The only two successful real working military flash suppressors that I have are the BE Meyers and the Smith Vortex, everything else I've tied has been crummy.
BTW, a compensator is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE for major blowout flash, just like not using any flash suppressor but worse.
The reason military grade flash suppressors are used by the military is primarily to stop the huge flash from affecting their night vision gear and a little bit to reduce enemy sighting of the flash with their NV gear.
http://www.military.com/entertainment/outdoor-guide/ar-hunting/flash-hiders-compensators.html
http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-flash-suppressors-muzzle-brakes-compensators-tip-barrel-5927.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_suppressor
You can manually reduce the gain to reduce the whiteout and have a much darker NV view, but if you are planning on shooting with NO flash suppressor or a crummy flash suppressor, as I said before, good luck. My handloads use a gunpowder that produces less flash than commercial rounds, but shooting it out of any of my rifles or SBRs with no flash suppressor or silencer produces a huge ten foot flash. This 10-foot flash is NOT good for night hunting with NV.
Also, all my GENIII NV gear works perfect with suppressors and zero flash from multiple shots.
Been loving the PVS-14/NV laser combo more and more lately with the silencer cans on and zero whiteout/blackout under any conditions, huge improvement!
That has not been my experience with any of my GENII NV gear and NV lasers, as the autogating shuts down the scope momentarily and the bright flash is a whiteout, so no way to attempt a second shot, this is on both 5.56mm and 7.62mm with 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 16", and 18" barrels. The only rifle I use that does not affect the NV gear at night is my .22 long rifle Ruger 10-22 with a muzzle flash suppressor.
Of course, the size of the flash is strictly dependent on the type of gunpowders you are using, the calibers of your rifles, and the length of your barrels on your rifles, none of which were stated in the OPs original post. You can mute down the flash somewhat using the proper powders for you caliber, length of barrel, and the size and weight of the cartridge you are using. In my experience, however, the majority of commercial grade ammunition is NOT specifically tuned for muzzle flash reduction, some military grade ammunition is designed to reduce muzzle signature but still requires a real good flash suppressor with NV gear. There are only a handful of real military grade flash suppressors on the market, most of them are junk. The only two successful real working military flash suppressors that I have are the BE Meyers and the Smith Vortex, everything else I've tied has been crummy.
BTW, a compensator is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE for major blowout flash, just like not using any flash suppressor but worse.
The reason military grade flash suppressors are used by the military is primarily to stop the huge flash from affecting their night vision gear and a little bit to reduce enemy sighting of the flash with their NV gear.
http://www.military.com/entertainment/outdoor-guide/ar-hunting/flash-hiders-compensators.html
http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-flash-suppressors-muzzle-brakes-compensators-tip-barrel-5927.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_suppressor
You can manually reduce the gain to reduce the whiteout and have a much darker NV view, but if you are planning on shooting with NO flash suppressor or a crummy flash suppressor, as I said before, good luck. My handloads use a gunpowder that produces less flash than commercial rounds, but shooting it out of any of my rifles or SBRs with no flash suppressor or silencer produces a huge ten foot flash. This 10-foot flash is NOT good for night hunting with NV.
Also, all my GENIII NV gear works perfect with suppressors and zero flash from multiple shots.
Been loving the PVS-14/NV laser combo more and more lately with the silencer cans on and zero whiteout/blackout under any conditions, huge improvement!
Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: SkyPupOriginally Posted By: HTRN57With respect to using a flash suppressor, the original post asks "is a flash suppressor on the barrel warranted to minimize any temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after a shot". The answer is no because there is no temporary bloom/blindness through the scope after the shot. This is because the ABC mechanism within both Gen 2 and Gen 3 devices prevents it. Kevin
That has not been my experience with any of my GENII NV gear and NV lasers, as the autogating shuts down the scope momentarily and the bright flash is a whiteout, so no way to attempt a second shot, this is on both 5.56mm and 7.62mm with 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 16", and 18" barrels. The only rifle I use that does not affect the NV gear at night is my .22 long rifle Ruger 10-22 with a muzzle flash suppressor.
Of course, the size of the flash is strictly dependent on the type of gunpowders you are using, the calibers of your rifles, and the length of your barrels on your rifles, none of which were stated in the OPs original post. You can mute down the flash somewhat using the proper powders for you caliber, length of barrel, and the size and weight of the cartridge you are using. In my experience, however, the majority of commercial grade ammunition is NOT specifically tuned for muzzle flash reduction, some military grade ammunition is designed to reduce muzzle signature but still requires a real good flash suppressor with NV gear. There are only a handful of real military grade flash suppressors on the market, most of them are junk.
The reason military grade flash suppressors are used by the military is to keep their NV gear from whiting out and to reduce their signature in the field for anyone else using NV.
You can manually reduce the gain to reduce the whiteout and have a much darker NV view, but if you are planning on shooting with NO flash suppressor or a crummy flash suppressor, as I said before, good luck. My handloads use a gunpowder that produces less flash than commercial rounds, but shooting it out of any of my rifles or SBRs with no flash suppressor or silencer produces a huge ten foot flash. This 10-foot flash is NOT good for night hunting with NV.
Also, all my GENIII NV gear works perfect with suppressors and zero flash from multiple shots.
Been loving the PVS-14/NV laser combo more and more lately with the silencer cans on and zero whiteout/blackout under any conditions, huge improvement!
Agree 100% here and basically what I've experienced per my postings above. We've been testing as mentioned and also shooting with NV and all sorts of gear for over 10 years. I mean take a AR out with no flash suppressors and see the FIREBALL out there! It shuts down MANY Gen 2 devices and some Gen 3's at that. ABC and Autogating can only do so much and huge fireballs of smoke and flash does not bode well for quick follow up shots.
SP also brings up a great point on powder used (if reloading) that will also show differences after shots with barrel length etc.
For others reading, think about day shooting as well. NV is well known not to see well in the fog, smoke etc., thus while thermal is used with fire depts. and others at night as well. Many shooters know at times the actual smoke in the air at the front of a muzzle. At night, this can be compounded even without a IR Illuminator being used.
Per my other posts, it's cheap insurance to get a flash hider at the very least, the best of course is a sound suppressor, it's the best of all worlds!
That has not been my experience with any of my GENII NV gear and NV lasers, as the autogating shuts down the scope momentarily and the bright flash is a whiteout, so no way to attempt a second shot, this is on both 5.56mm and 7.62mm with 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 16", and 18" barrels. The only rifle I use that does not affect the NV gear at night is my .22 long rifle Ruger 10-22 with a muzzle flash suppressor.
Of course, the size of the flash is strictly dependent on the type of gunpowders you are using, the calibers of your rifles, and the length of your barrels on your rifles, none of which were stated in the OPs original post. You can mute down the flash somewhat using the proper powders for you caliber, length of barrel, and the size and weight of the cartridge you are using. In my experience, however, the majority of commercial grade ammunition is NOT specifically tuned for muzzle flash reduction, some military grade ammunition is designed to reduce muzzle signature but still requires a real good flash suppressor with NV gear. There are only a handful of real military grade flash suppressors on the market, most of them are junk.
The reason military grade flash suppressors are used by the military is to keep their NV gear from whiting out and to reduce their signature in the field for anyone else using NV.
You can manually reduce the gain to reduce the whiteout and have a much darker NV view, but if you are planning on shooting with NO flash suppressor or a crummy flash suppressor, as I said before, good luck. My handloads use a gunpowder that produces less flash than commercial rounds, but shooting it out of any of my rifles or SBRs with no flash suppressor or silencer produces a huge ten foot flash. This 10-foot flash is NOT good for night hunting with NV.
Also, all my GENIII NV gear works perfect with suppressors and zero flash from multiple shots.
Been loving the PVS-14/NV laser combo more and more lately with the silencer cans on and zero whiteout/blackout under any conditions, huge improvement!
Agree 100% here and basically what I've experienced per my postings above. We've been testing as mentioned and also shooting with NV and all sorts of gear for over 10 years. I mean take a AR out with no flash suppressors and see the FIREBALL out there! It shuts down MANY Gen 2 devices and some Gen 3's at that. ABC and Autogating can only do so much and huge fireballs of smoke and flash does not bode well for quick follow up shots.
SP also brings up a great point on powder used (if reloading) that will also show differences after shots with barrel length etc.
For others reading, think about day shooting as well. NV is well known not to see well in the fog, smoke etc., thus while thermal is used with fire depts. and others at night as well. Many shooters know at times the actual smoke in the air at the front of a muzzle. At night, this can be compounded even without a IR Illuminator being used.
Per my other posts, it's cheap insurance to get a flash hider at the very least, the best of course is a sound suppressor, it's the best of all worlds!
6mm06
Well-known member
Interesting read.
Skypup, that video revealed a lot. Looks like the YHM Phantom and Smith Vortex were pretty darn good.
Question: Would the YHM Phantom 5c2 or the Smith Vortex simply screw onto my Bushmaster (in place of the A2 type suppressor I already have)? I am assuming these two suppressors have common threads Another question: Do the suppressors have to be aligned in a certain fashion to be effective or is it a simple matter to just screw it on?
I previously used the digital Photon XT scope and got the white-out bloom effect when shooting, so much so that I would lose sight of the area momentarily when shooting. Question: Do you think a flash hider like the two mentioned would help with that to any degree, enough to make it more usable for video of the hunt?
SkyPup
New member
David, the standard A2 birdcage is a standard piece of crap for flash suppression and almost worthless.
The BE Meyers and Smith Vortex are the best top of the line flash suppressors that the upper echelon of the US Armed Forces use on their rifles for night combat.
Yes, they will screw onto any standard threaded 1/2×28 thread pitch and they align themselves.
The only thing better than those are most any silencer.
B.E MEYERS M249F flash hider will beat all.
Is used by SOF and only released to public a little over two years ago and has consistent highest score with DoD.
"According to a formal US Army evaluation, the M249F eliminates 96% of all visible muzzle flash and was awarded the highest score during testing."
"This prevents momentary night blindness and eliminates flash distortion of night vision devices, allowing you to effectively maintain target awareness throughout an engagement."
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Interesting read.
Skypup, that video revealed a lot. Looks like the YHM Phantom and Smith Vortex were pretty darn good.
Question: Would the YHM Phantom 5c2 or the Smith Vortex simply screw onto my Bushmaster (in place of the A2 type suppressor I already have? I am assuming these two suppressors have common threads Another question: Do the suppressors have to be aligned in a certain fashion to be effective or is it a simple matter to just screw it on?
I previously used the digital Photon XT scope and got the white-out bloom effect when shooting, so much so that I would lose sight of the area momentarily when shooting. Question: Do you think a flash hider like the two mentioned would help with that to any degree, enough to make it more usable for video of the hunt?
The BE Meyers and Smith Vortex are the best top of the line flash suppressors that the upper echelon of the US Armed Forces use on their rifles for night combat.
Yes, they will screw onto any standard threaded 1/2×28 thread pitch and they align themselves.
The only thing better than those are most any silencer.
B.E MEYERS M249F flash hider will beat all.
Is used by SOF and only released to public a little over two years ago and has consistent highest score with DoD.
"According to a formal US Army evaluation, the M249F eliminates 96% of all visible muzzle flash and was awarded the highest score during testing."
"This prevents momentary night blindness and eliminates flash distortion of night vision devices, allowing you to effectively maintain target awareness throughout an engagement."
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Interesting read.
Skypup, that video revealed a lot. Looks like the YHM Phantom and Smith Vortex were pretty darn good.
Question: Would the YHM Phantom 5c2 or the Smith Vortex simply screw onto my Bushmaster (in place of the A2 type suppressor I already have? I am assuming these two suppressors have common threads Another question: Do the suppressors have to be aligned in a certain fashion to be effective or is it a simple matter to just screw it on?
I previously used the digital Photon XT scope and got the white-out bloom effect when shooting, so much so that I would lose sight of the area momentarily when shooting. Question: Do you think a flash hider like the two mentioned would help with that to any degree, enough to make it more usable for video of the hunt?
SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: norbsSo why does the military send our boys into a war with a PVS-14, PEQ-15, and a standard A2 flash suppressor on the end of their M4 barrels if they can't make quick follow up shots with it?
You will have to contact the Pentagon and DOD to find out the answer to your question.
When you do, also ask them why the gunpowder propellant in the current issue ammo they are using was designed to be used in 20" barrels and doesn't completely burn in any shorter barrel.
You will have to contact the Pentagon and DOD to find out the answer to your question.
When you do, also ask them why the gunpowder propellant in the current issue ammo they are using was designed to be used in 20" barrels and doesn't completely burn in any shorter barrel.
Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: norbsSo why does the military send our boys into a war with a PVS-14, PEQ-15, and a standard A2 flash suppressor on the end of their M4 barrels if they can't make quick follow up shots with it?
Simple they dont place PVS-14's on rifles nor behind rifle scopes. They leave them on their heads with IR lasers on their rifles keeping their head up. Also the A2 IS a flash hider and while not as effective as the BE Meyers or the Vortex it IS a flash surpressor that is 200% better than no flash surpressor whatsoever.
This conversation was about a question not using one at all and it's silly to say the least not to use one for the inexpensive insurance it provides. Hope this helps.
Simple they dont place PVS-14's on rifles nor behind rifle scopes. They leave them on their heads with IR lasers on their rifles keeping their head up. Also the A2 IS a flash hider and while not as effective as the BE Meyers or the Vortex it IS a flash surpressor that is 200% better than no flash surpressor whatsoever.
This conversation was about a question not using one at all and it's silly to say the least not to use one for the inexpensive insurance it provides. Hope this helps.