Thanks for the replies so far guys, i've learned some interesting things so far from you all.
Originally Posted By: RustydustPeople forget that fast twist barrels create higher pressures than slower twist barrels do. And quick twist barrels have a shorter life as well. Generally speaking it is best to stick with the slowest twist that will still allow good accuracy with the heaviest bullet that you will be using. I rarely shoot anything heavier than 50 grain bullets (the heaviest being 55 grain) out of any of my .224 bore guns so they all have a 1-14" twist except my CZ 527 American which is a 1-12". I had a 1-9" .223 once but it did not shoot the 40 grain bullets very well but it shot the 50 and heavier just fine. But Idaho ground squirrels really pop when hit with a fast moving 40 so that is what I like to use quite a bit. Were I to build me a long range .224 bore varminter just for VLD bullets then I might have something as tight as a 1-8" twist but I have no plans on doing so. I have killed prairie dogs out past 700 yards with 50 grain bullets out of my .223 AI and they did just fine. I have no reason to want to go to a fast twist for my kind of shooting.
That's a interesting point, my VTR hasn't seemed to like 40 grain pills either. Seems to shoot 45 HPs real well though. This is all factory ammo though but quality factory ammo. The 40's I tried were hornady V-max. Seems like alot of different opinions here on twists and bullet weights but just my experience for far. Thats what lead me to the 1-12 idea, and I understand different rifles may perform differently and its not nessisarily about twist rate.
Originally Posted By: MasterBlasterCheck out my VS 700 Remington
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...FS#Post10549302
MASTERBLASTER
That's a very nice rifle! Was a solid line before Remington discontinued those.
Originally Posted By: msincOriginally Posted By: Eugene CanterburyNot sure why you would even bother with a slow twist. You can run light bullets in a fast twist barrel. Why limit yourself? The tikka varmint is 1 in 9 twist I believe. It seems a waste of money to go with slow twists nowadays.
Originally Posted By: B23When I first bought my Remington LTR, which comes with a 20 inch 1-9tw barrel, most of what I shot in it was 40gr Nosler BT's driven by a healthy dose of Benchmark powder. Between my dad and I we had a mountain of both and he was using the exact same load in his Vanguard/Howa 20in 1-12tw .223, they shot nearly identical. Shot A LOT of those 40gr BT's for the next few years until I got a wild hair and turned my LTR into a 223 Ack Imp with a new Hart 22 inch 1-9tw. Now all I shoot are the 53Vmax.
The .223 doesn't have the horsepower a lot of the other .22 cal centerfires do so I prefer to use a little more twist in my 223's than if it was say a 22-250.
If a great deal came along on a 223 you liked but it had a 1-9 tube on it, even if all I planned on shooting were the 40's, I wouldn't think twice about buying it.
Not sure what you're exactly looking for but I've got one of these and it's been a great little shooter since it was new. $800 for everything doesn't seem like a bad price considering the gun alone cost $950+
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,176576.0.html
Insightful point thanks for the info.
Originally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: Eugene CanterburyOriginally Posted By: RustydustPeople forget that fast twist barrels create higher pressures than slower twist barrels do. And quick twist barrels have a shorter life as well. Generally speaking it is best to stick with the slowest twist that will still allow good accuracy with the heaviest bullet that you will be using. I rarely shoot anything heavier than 50 grain bullets (the heaviest being 55 grain) out of any of my .224 bore guns so they all have a 1-14" twist except my CZ 527 American which is a 1-12". I had a 1-9" .223 once but it did not shoot the 40 grain bullets very well but it shot the 50 and heavier just fine. But Idaho ground squirrels really pop when hit with a fast moving 40 so that is what I like to use quite a bit. Were I to build me a long range .224 bore varminter just for VLD bullets then I might have something as tight as a 1-8" twist but I have no plans on doing so. I have killed prairie dogs out past 700 yards with 50 grain bullets out of my .223 AI and they did just fine. I have no reason to want to go to a fast twist for my kind of shooting.
Very informative and insightful thanks!
Originally Posted By: RustydustPeople forget that fast twist barrels create higher pressures than slower twist barrels do. And quick twist barrels have a shorter life as well. Generally speaking it is best to stick with the slowest twist that will still allow good accuracy with the heaviest bullet that you will be using. I rarely shoot anything heavier than 50 grain bullets (the heaviest being 55 grain) out of any of my .224 bore guns so they all have a 1-14" twist except my CZ 527 American which is a 1-12". I had a 1-9" .223 once but it did not shoot the 40 grain bullets very well but it shot the 50 and heavier just fine. But Idaho ground squirrels really pop when hit with a fast moving 40 so that is what I like to use quite a bit. Were I to build me a long range .224 bore varminter just for VLD bullets then I might have something as tight as a 1-8" twist but I have no plans on doing so. I have killed prairie dogs out past 700 yards with 50 grain bullets out of my .223 AI and they did just fine. I have no reason to want to go to a fast twist for my kind of shooting.
While Rustydust is a wealth of knowledge, and his word is gospel, on this issue Bryan Litz would disagree for the most part. Read the short article in this link, and be certain to read the comment section. Litz addresses the pressure question in the comment section, along with Frank Green from Bartlien barrels.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/02/does-barrel-twist-rate-affect-muzzle-velocity-litz-test/
Bryan Litz
"Jim,
The test directly addresses the question about twist rate and MV which was the intent. Many people have held the belief that twist rate had a dramatic effect on MV. This was proven false. That result has meaning.
Twist rate and pressure is a slightly different question, but it has the same answer. Due to the physics involved, there’s really no mechanism for twist rate alone to affect pressure or MV very much at all.
Propelling the bullet forward takes up 99.4% of the energy. 0.6% of the energy is in rotation. If you increase the twist rate from 1:10″ to 1:8″, you’ve increased the energy in the 0.6% portion of rotation, which subtracts from the 99.4% of forward motion. Point being, the forward motion (99.4%) is not affected much by changing the 0.6% component.
If you’re working up a load for a 1:8″ twist and it shows pressure at a lower MV compared to a 1:10″ twist, then it’s due to something other than twist such as bore/groove diameter, bore finish, fouling state, etc. In other words, the twist rate is not the causal element in making more pressure. The point of deliberate scientific testing is to isolate variables of interest to determine true causality. It’s important to understand causality because that’s what informs your decisions. It would be a shame if, for example, you chose a slower twist rate than was ideal for your bullet because you had the false belief that you would be giving up velocity (at the same pressure) from the faster twist. You would ultimately be leaving performance on the table because of a false understanding of causality."
You're not getting it. The op wants to shoot lighter bullets. He doesn't need a fast twist. With light bullets a 14 or 12" twist is just fine. Through my 14 twist barrels, 55's are very accurate. Even the long 55Blitzkings that some claim won't stabilize in a 14twist.......they shoot tiny groups. Slower twist is less fussy about loads. Mine will shoot most any bullet well.
Yeah with this gun since I have a 1-9 already, I would be looking to mainly shoot light varmint loads for coyote, rock chucks and other small critters. Maybe mess around some with 55 FMJ AR stuff since its cheap, though mainly just do that in my 1 in 9 gun. Any heavier SMK loads and such for target shooting etc I'd just do in the 9.
No you don't get it. Try the light bullets in the 1-9 twist. I'll bet they shoot. Originally Posted By: AckmanThat's not the point. No need for faster twist with light bullets. The 9 twist is unnecessary and a lot fussier about loads. But whatever rings your bell. However, go back and read what the op wants.
Originally Posted By: B23When I first bought my Remington LTR, which comes with a 20 inch 1-9tw barrel, most of what I shot in it was 40gr Nosler BT's driven by a healthy dose of Benchmark powder. Between my dad and I we had a mountain of both and he was using the exact same load in his Vanguard/Howa 20in 1-12tw .223, they shot nearly identical. Shot A LOT of those 40gr BT's for the next few years until I got a wild hair and turned my LTR into a 223 Ack Imp with a new Hart 22 inch 1-9tw. Now all I shoot are the 53Vmax.
The .223 doesn't have the horsepower a lot of the other .22 cal centerfires do so I prefer to use a little more twist in my 223's than if it was say a 22-250.
If a great deal came along on a 223 you liked but it had a 1-9 tube on it, even if all I planned on shooting were the 40's, I wouldn't think twice about buying it.
Not sure what you're exactly looking for but I've got one of these and it's been a great little shooter since it was new. $800 for everything doesn't seem like a bad price considering the gun alone cost $950+
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,176576.0.html
Thats a very good rifle as well, thanks for sharing.