44 mag reloads

Originally Posted By: joed

I'm not defending hot loads but I'd bet those older manuals still have good loads in them, as long as you work up to it.

Those old reloading manuals used real guns to test their loads in. Even back then they did say on every page to approach max loads with caution. Something that I rarely did. But I figured if their guns did not blow up then mine wouldn't either. So far so good. Mostly.
 
Originally Posted By: joedOriginally Posted By: Doubless
Pressure testing and cartridge pressure determinations have come light years since the time of the second edition (if that is what it is...), and the numbers have been adjusted down accordingly.

Be safe, and have fun! But BE SAFE!

Did you know that SAAMI revolver data is not fired in a vented barrel? Because of that they lowered the pressure.

Powders burn faster? If that were the case they would have to change the name of the powder.

I'm not defending hot loads but I'd bet those older manuals still have good loads in them, as long as you work up to it.

Please show me in this thread where I said powders burn faster. I did not say that...

Secondly, you state that you don't defend hot loads but then say that older manuals that have documented hot loads in them still are good loads... I am confused.

I am not sure what you call an un-vented barrel. Are you talking about magna-port and similar? If so there are VERY few barrels that come from the factory ported. So I don't understand your point there.

What I would offer you is this: reloading handbooks are generated after every possible potential for a mishap is considered, and the intended firearm of use is considered as well. Then SAAMI specs enter the picture, and in the case of some books, a velocity of 100 fps is the determining factor for max load. IOW, if it takes too much powder to reach the next 100 fps, i.e., SAAMI spec is exceeded before the next velocity plateau is met, then the lower charge is considered max.

Finally, reading excessive pressures in revolvers is a fine art. I would venture to say that there won't be much visual difference between a max load and an overload of roughly 10%, but if you wait until you have hard extraction, you have impact welded the cases to the cylinder, and I will tell you for a FACT you have tested the heat treatment of the revolver frame as well.

No less an authority than the late Finn Aagaard stated that a modest charge of 11 grains of Accurate #5 behind a 240-250 grain SWC would shoot completely through anything encountered in Texas. I would venture to say that would hold true for any whitetail in the US and most elk as well.

If you need more than 1300 fps out of a 250, then go to the 454 Casull or shoot 300s out of your .44. But I don't think in most of our hunting lives we will ever come to a situation where we are undergunned with a 44 full of 1200 fps loads, assuming the proper projectile is used.

But maybe I am wrong. I just know that it isn't worth risking losing some fingers due to my own stupidity trying to make a gun do something the books say don't try to make it do.
 
Originally Posted By: DoublessOriginally Posted By: nastynatesfishDepends what you can find. I've seen 2400 online a few times and h110 a bit. Both of those are your go to powders imo. I use unique also but it's not as fast and I run 13gr behind a 240 cast or jhp. Really biggest deal is to watch your charged cases. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A CHARGE/HAVE 1CHARGE ONLY before seating a bullet. I like 2400 because you can't double charge a round without spilling powder.

Please tell us which manual you are loading from. I have checked three of mine, and the heaviest powder charge I can find for Unique and a 240-grain projectile of any kind is 10.3 grains. If that is correct, you are at almost a 30% overload, just begging for trouble.


I also load from an old (1971) manual. If you are content with book loads so be it. I am not.


I was at 12.5 and still dirty so I worked to 12.8 and settled on 13. I'm in no way telling anyone to load to my charges. Simply state what I use.
 
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Originally Posted By: RustydustOriginally Posted By: joed

I'm not defending hot loads but I'd bet those older manuals still have good loads in them, as long as you work up to it.

Those old reloading manuals used real guns to test their loads in. Even back then they did say on every page to approach max loads with caution. Something that I rarely did. But I figured if their guns did not blow up then mine wouldn't either. So far so good. Mostly.
Exactly my feelings sir
 
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So if you shot a load for a few years that shot great and never had an issue with, then a new manual came out and have "revised" you load as being over max. Would you pull all your loads and rework? Reloading manuals are guides. They give you a good start and stop point for new reloaders. I run most my stuff over max because it shoots there. But hey, I remember when the speed limit on the freeway was 55, I still did 60 or 65. Now It's 75 and i 75 or 80. But that's what I'm comfortable with. To each there own
 
I am typically the outlier on most of these threads. It is just that I have a Casull, and if I have to run my 629 Classic that hot, to me it is a misapplication of the firearm, and I will go get the Casull.

You have to remember: Cape Buffalo were killed with the 44 Mag and factory loaded ammunition. I would think that a pretty good test of what the caliber will do. There is no reason to hotrod a revolver, risk blowing it to smithereens (they only make one sound when they energetically disassemble; there is no warning crack!) and risk losing fingers and potentially eyesight as well.

At least there is no reason for me to do it. But as you said: to each their own.
 
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None of the loads I shoot are as hot as some of the Buffaloes bore ammo either. My idea is why have two weapons when one will do the job? And my loads of unique are not hotrods, just not at current book loads. If it was meant for one load there would be no use of tinkering.
 
Originally Posted By: Doubless



Please show me in this thread where I said powders burn faster. I did not say that...

Secondly, you state that you don't defend hot loads but then say that older manuals that have documented hot loads in them still are good loads... I am confused.

I am not sure what you call an un-vented barrel. Are you talking about magna-port and similar? If so there are VERY few barrels that come from the factory ported. So I don't understand your point there.

What I would offer you is this: reloading handbooks are generated after every possible potential for a mishap is considered, and the intended firearm of use is considered as well. Then SAAMI specs enter the picture, and in the case of some books, a velocity of 100 fps is the determining factor for max load. IOW, if it takes too much powder to reach the next 100 fps, i.e., SAAMI spec is exceeded before the next velocity plateau is met, then the lower charge is considered max.

Finally, reading excessive pressures in revolvers is a fine art. I would venture to say that there won't be much visual difference between a max load and an overload of roughly 10%, but if you wait until you have hard extraction, you have impact welded the cases to the cylinder, and I will tell you for a FACT you have tested the heat treatment of the revolver frame as well.

No less an authority than the late Finn Aagaard stated that a modest charge of 11 grains of Accurate #5 behind a 240-250 grain SWC would shoot completely through anything encountered in Texas. I would venture to say that would hold true for any whitetail in the US and most elk as well.

If you need more than 1300 fps out of a 250, then go to the 454 Casull or shoot 300s out of your .44. But I don't think in most of our hunting lives we will ever come to a situation where we are undergunned with a 44 full of 1200 fps loads, assuming the proper projectile is used.

But maybe I am wrong. I just know that it isn't worth risking losing some fingers due to my own stupidity trying to make a gun do something the books say don't try to make it do.

No, I know you did not say powders burn faster. I do not doubt anything you posted. What I was referring to is some people claim powders burn faster now days. They should not or the company would have to change the designation of the powder. I have a chemist friend who tested a very old container of Unique against modern day Unique. Tests show the same velocity.

On the barrels not being vented I'm referring to the barrel/cylinder gap. To my knowledge SAAMI did not and do not use a revolver to measure pressure. That gap does lower the pressure. I sent several emails to them asking about this, never got an answer.

Do I shoot hot loads? No, I have no reason to. My favorite load for the .44 Mag is 15.5 gr of 2400 which is about 1050 fps with a 240 gr bullet. It's easy on me and the gun.
 
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Originally Posted By: joedOriginally Posted By: Doubless



Please show me in this thread where I said powders burn faster. I did not say that...

Secondly, you state that you don't defend hot loads but then say that older manuals that have documented hot loads in them still are good loads... I am confused.

I am not sure what you call an un-vented barrel. Are you talking about magna-port and similar? If so there are VERY few barrels that come from the factory ported. So I don't understand your point there.

What I would offer you is this: reloading handbooks are generated after every possible potential for a mishap is considered, and the intended firearm of use is considered as well. Then SAAMI specs enter the picture, and in the case of some books, a velocity of 100 fps is the determining factor for max load. IOW, if it takes too much powder to reach the next 100 fps, i.e., SAAMI spec is exceeded before the next velocity plateau is met, then the lower charge is considered max.

Finally, reading excessive pressures in revolvers is a fine art. I would venture to say that there won't be much visual difference between a max load and an overload of roughly 10%, but if you wait until you have hard extraction, you have impact welded the cases to the cylinder, and I will tell you for a FACT you have tested the heat treatment of the revolver frame as well.

No less an authority than the late Finn Aagaard stated that a modest charge of 11 grains of Accurate #5 behind a 240-250 grain SWC would shoot completely through anything encountered in Texas. I would venture to say that would hold true for any whitetail in the US and most elk as well.

If you need more than 1300 fps out of a 250, then go to the 454 Casull or shoot 300s out of your .44. But I don't think in most of our hunting lives we will ever come to a situation where we are undergunned with a 44 full of 1200 fps loads, assuming the proper projectile is used.

But maybe I am wrong. I just know that it isn't worth risking losing some fingers due to my own stupidity trying to make a gun do something the books say don't try to make it do.

No, I know you did not say powders burn faster. I do not doubt anything you posted. What I was referring to is some people claim powders burn faster now days. They should not or the company would have to change the designation of the powder. I have a chemist friend who tested a very old container of Unique against modern day Unique. Tests show the same velocity.

On the barrels not being vented I'm referring to the barrel/cylinder gap. To my knowledge SAAMI did not and do not use a revolver to measure pressure. That gap does lower the pressure. I sent several emails to them asking about this, never got an answer.

Do I shoot hot loads? No, I have no reason to. My favorite load for the .44 Mag is 15.5 gr of 2400 which is about 1050 fps with a 240 gr bullet. It's easy on me and the gun.

Gotcha. Many thanks for the clarification. I simply misunderstood.
 
24.5 grains of h110 cci magnum primer and 240 speer jacketed soct points shoot through deer and hogs for me. I use a first run sbh hunter and a 2x burris.
 
So many posts on here that DON'T answer the OP's question...

I run H110/W296 in almost all of my magnum revolver cartridge loads, from 32H&R to 480R. Easy to find accurate loads, and it tends to be one of the fastest, if not THE fastest powder, meaning most power, so I don't often venture away from that.

I don't run light loads except for 38spcl, in which case, I run 4.0grn of Bullseye under a 93grn Meister LRN. Hopefully this won't spur another 3 pages of folks arguing that I'm BELOW map for the one manual that they own.
 
TNSLIM, I would find a GOOD commercial 240-250-grain cast bullet, (if you can't, send me a PM; I have been casting since 1980 and I know what I am doing...) get some LP primers, and then try to find some Accurate #5. Unique works, but it is a grain faster than #5. Regardless, ten grains of Unique or 11 grains of #5 will shoot completely through anything you will run across in the woods, if I am a betting man...

Maybe this will help. I hope so.
 
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There are a lot of powders that work well.

For power loads my favorites are

1) Lil' Gun ....some complain about velocity swings with their Lil' Gun loads...I have chrono'd my load multiple times and have never seen the phenomenon that some report. I consistently see loads that are 50-100 fps faster than with other max loads with 240 and 300 gr XTP bullets. It is also one that seems to be available most of the time locally

2) 2400 ....this is the first powder I ever used for .44mag loads and it is still one of my favorites...it provides good velocity and was a very common powder before the recent shortages.

3) H110 ....another excellent high velocity powder but it's also one that is tough to find lately



Mid range loads

1) HS6 you can get a nice mid range load that still exceeds a .44 special without punishing yourself

2)Universal....another great powder for light loads



I haven't shot many light loads, typically if I grab a .44 mag I want power so I'm shooting on or very close to the max load whether it's in a handgun for range play or my rifles for hunting. It's by far one of my favorite calibers and with a 240 XTP bullet at 1800+ fps it's a deer hammer.
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The .44 mag cartridge is a very flexible round in the hands of a savvy handloader.

I also am a big fan of 2400 in the revolvers. I stress that using standard LP primers is important with stiffer loads in this powder.

I also like Unique ........ the way Skeeter Skelton advocated it's use ........ lighter mid-range loads.

But the powder I like the best for general bumming around is HS-6 ...... magnum primer, a RCBS 250K bullet and about mid 20K pressure ....... Hodgon's #26 manual suggests a load range of 10 to 12 grains ........ I settled on 11.8 gr. and found my Smith MG runs 1066 fps with a mere 7 fps standard deviation and my Ruger RH comes in at 1176 fps with it's 7.5" barrel and a SD of just 15 fps.

The recoil is very reasonable and it makes much more sense to me than hopping up Unique.

Best regards and good shooting

Three 44s
 
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