458 SOCOM

GLShooter

Active member
Ritch put this one together for me last year and I finally have time to go out and see what the little big man will do. This one has one of the Black Hole Victory Series barrels with the integral muzzle brake. Only a 16" tube but this isn't a canyon gun. I used a BTE gas block and hand guard for the upper. The scope is a 6.5X20 Vortex off one of my PD rifles as I didn't have the Vortex 2X7 that will be coming in for life atop this one.

The lower was one I built for 3Gun and varmint shooing. TImney drop in with Magpul and Wilson operating surfaces.

The rifle waiting to head out this week is decent looking if I do say so myself. Total weight with the big glass is 7.4 pounds but when the new Vortex shows up will drop to a just a very small amount under 7.



My time at the bench turned these out. 325 FTX's that are supersonic and some 405 grain Remingtons loaded for sub-sonic. I need to turn the seater plug down for a better fit on the pills.




I'll post up as I go as this might well be the varmint gun for the Great North.

Greg
 
I started with a 450Bushy 'roundabouts 2002 or 3, then gave up on pistol bullets and traded for a SOCOM... Spent a little while playing, then gave up on it and sold it. I didn't regret getting rid of it at the time when I did, but I'm finding that I do now!!

A buddy and I have been kicking 458's around for a few weeks now, this might be the clincher to convince me to order a barrel and build another upper this summer.

I'm a HUGE fan of the 45-70, and I shoot big bore handguns all the time, so it only follows that I have a soft spot for big bullets moving slow. 300yrds or less, those 325grn FTX's are absolute hammers on deer - they still do the same past 300yrds, but they start dropping faster than they run when you get out that far!
 
Greg - would you be willing and/or able to comment a bit on the difference that barrel length makes for the 458soc?

I'd tend to assume that a 16" or 18" tube will get everything done that there is to be done in terms of powder efficiency, but I hate to assume too much. I'm not a big fan of the balance of 16" tubes, old habits I guess, but I'm hard pressed to think that a 45cal bore won't chew up all of the powder such a small case can hold within 16". I run an 18.5" 45-70 a lot, I know I give up a lot of velocity there compared to my 22" and 26" barreled versions, but that's a lot lower pressure and a lot bigger case.

How does the dwell time run for an 18"? I'll assume a mid-length is safer, but maybe with the slower pills, a rifle length might be more efficient? Or does the big bore burn so fast that it doesn't have enough pressure left, so it'd need a carb length?
 
I think that an 18" might be the way to go with a max of 20" in an AR. Like you mention pressures are pretty low. You can hot rod it a tad in a bolt gun but for most it is a big enough on the energy end to not bother much. My KTB takes away about an inch so that comes into play. Of course a guy could go a full standard type profile at 18" and have a good brake added. I know Ritch has a great source for those.

Personal opinion says no rifle gas on this one unless 20" plus is in the mix. I believe that the expansion ratio just drops potential port pressure to run consistently if the mid-length is exceeded.

I'm far from experienced on this one but that's one reason I had this one built. Ritch has been super in expanding my knowledge base and occasionally I get to kick in a factoid or two.

Greg
 
I love the idea of "a 45-70 in an AR-15," especially in an 18-20" barrel. The 45-70 in a Marlin action has been my favorite rifle combination ever since I was a kid, and the AR-15 has been near and dear to me ever since I first dipped my toe into 3 Gun in college.

My wife might jump on a 458Socom upper for her new AR before I get a chance for mine. She's a big fan of the 45-70 too, but she says her current rifle (an upgrade from her 1895GS) is WAY sexier than any AR-15 in 458!
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Would you think that a brake is necessary to protect the rifle, or just a nicety for the shooter?
 
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I managed some time in the reloading room yesterday and loaded up a few rounds of SOCOM. I did the lube wipe down this morning. 270 of the 325 Hornady supers and 100 of the 405 Remington sub-sonics. It's been a while since I ran through that much powder in a day but it was fun. I'd set my dies up on my Dillon 300 and once I figured out which powder funnel to use that wouldn't flare the mouths, 6.8 BTW, I went to town. A nice steady leisurely 150-175 rounds an hour was easy on this one.

Lost of nice down range thump on the way.



Greg
 
Is the number in parentheses the ES? Kinda interesting - the 31fps ES shot a smaller group than the 7fps ES.

Were you shooting through the can yet? What fps were you targeting for your subsonic loads? 1156fps on the 25.5grn load, I'll assume you were wanting to be under 1100fps? I've generally targeted under 1000fps for speed of sound where I live, but the can scrubs off a little speed, so 1050-1100fps when not suppressed. Would you plan on tuning that back down to the 25.0grn mark (or less) to get beneath the subsonic barrier?

Purty dang good groups for a 16" carbine throwing big ol' hunks o'copper & lead.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorIs the number in parentheses the ES? Kinda interesting - the 31fps ES shot a smaller group than the 7fps ES.

Were you shooting through the can yet? What fps were you targeting for your subsonic loads? 1156fps on the 25.5grn load, I'll assume you were wanting to be under 1100fps? I've generally targeted under 1000fps for speed of sound where I live, but the can scrubs off a little speed, so 1050-1100fps when not suppressed. Would you plan on tuning that back down to the shoulder 25.0grn mark (or less) to get beneath the subsonic barrier?

Purty dang good groups for a 16" carbine throwing big ol' hunks o'copper & lead.

Yes ES is extreme spread. That was just my first foray on these. I'll be turning it back to about 1050.

Greg
 
Fighting this one. The last few years for me have been kinda dedicated to culling my HUNTING arsenal down to fewer firearms (more money for SHOOTING firearms that way), so I've been leaning towards "one rifle that can do everything" - and for me, that has meant making switch barrel rigs. On my AR side, I built a new rifle with 204R, 223Rem, and 6.8SPC uppers - throw a 458Soc upper in that mix and I'd have even more versatility in that rig.

Argh... Why can't barrels grow on trees?
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorFighting this one. The last few years for me have been kinda dedicated to culling my HUNTING arsenal down to fewer firearms (more money for SHOOTING firearms that way), so I've been leaning towards "one rifle that can do everything" - and for me, that has meant making switch barrel rigs. On my AR side, I built a new rifle with 204R, 223Rem, and 6.8SPC uppers - throw a 458Soc upper in that mix and I'd have even more versatility in that rig.

Argh... Why can't barrels grow on trees?

It is a dilemma. The AR is so versatile.

Personally I thought the 20 Practical with the right twist would take over the chores of my 204 and 223. It could shoot some good varmint bullets well that I mostly concentrate on then the 22X6.8 shows up and that, my friend, IMHO, "Can Do It All For Cowboys!!!" It will handle up to the biggest 22's I'd ever shoot and run out of a magazine fed AR without being a barrel burner.

For mid-weight I felt the 6X6.8 would do it all and it may we be the one for that. I want to work with the 6.5X6.8 if I can find the proper bullets. The more basic 264 LBC/Grendel do give a tad more flexibility if I want to go heavier.

I do own a 25 WSSM that is a hammer and might fill the long range need but perhaps the 300 OSSM is the place to look there.

For my heavy in the AR the SOCOM or the Bushy would be the biggy though. For toe to toe brawls I must admit that the ones that start with .45 rein supreme. There are Bushy bullets that do well and aren't just the pistol pills that everyone poo poos.

Wow, five minutes and I distilled it down to four uppers. My other eighteen are gonna be chapped!LOL

Keep us posted as you wrestle with the upper Debil..

Greg
 
Yeah, I was between a 17Rem and a 204Ruger for my "sub-cal" upper - went with the 204R for now. If I still need a 17 in a few months/yrs, all I need is a barrel.

If for no other reason but habit, I like the 223/5.56 for my 22cal. Not surprisingly, since we're on predator masters, I do a lot of coyote hunting with 50grn V-max's, and the 223/556 delivers.

I was between the 6.8 and 6x6.8 for my super-cal upper. Again, if I decide to switch sooner than later, all I need is a barrel.

So then I need a "mega-cal" upper still to finish up my platform. I had terrible luck swaging 458 bullets to 452, and I'm just not a lover of lead (surprisingly), so the Socom gets my nod.

From bunnies to buffalo, those 4 wouldn't just be "good enough", but would be nearly ideal.

I have a 22-250, 30-06, and 338-06 barrel on the way for a switch barrel rig (my son's), a 7mm and a 338wm for another (my wife's), and a 300wm and a 458wm barrel for a 3rd (my own). Thinking about adding a 264win mag or 6.5rem mag to my switch barrel to give me access to even smaller pills.
 
Well thought out. At least dies are cheap..
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Ritch got me on to the Savage thing. I now have a short and a long action and I think seven chamberings from 20 LBC to 300 Win mag. Some bigger ones will probably show up like a 458. or a .338 Win. I already have a custom 358 Norma so the 338 would just be a toy. I love those savage guns.

Oh and there is more in the pot that Ritch and I are stirring. Your pocket book will be ..challenged.

Greg
 
Ha! Yeah, I always seem to find a way to keep my safe full and my pocketbook "challenged" as you say. Once I finish these switch barrel bolt guns, I'm intending to focus my energies towards specialty pistols for a while, with a 284win Rem 700 first up. Savage will still build Strykers if you ask really nicely, but if I do, I wanna find someone do a mid-grip for it.
 
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