Recommend a fur-friendly caliber for coyote and occasional fox and bobcat

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kmcdonou

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I am looking for something smaller than my 223 for predator hunting in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Shots are no more than 200 yards, and often much less due to the thicker cover. I plan to reload and want to harvest the furs. I want something easy to reload with good quality brass that won't overly damage the occasional fox and bobcat (coyote are more common). I don't care if there is commercial ammunition available. I really want good quality brass that is readily available. I normally use Lapua or Norma. I don't mine resizing it as long as there aren't too many steps involved.

Some calibers I have considered include 17 fireball, 17 remington, 17-222 and 17-223, and 20 Vartarg. All have pros and cons. Can't seem to hone in on the best choice.

Any thoughts?
 
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I am still searching for that mysterious load. I want to anchor coyotes on the spot, something my 17 Remington and 25 gr. Hornady HPs do well, but I don't won't to blow gaping holes in fox pelts, something it also does well, that is, it blows gaping holes in fox pelts. Haven't tried it on bobcats yet, but I suspect it won't be far from what happens with fox.

ARCOREY has a 17 Remington also, a model 7 Remington that has a short barrel. If I recall correctly, his velocity is in or around the 3500 fps mark whereas my 17 Rem with it's 24" barrel is running 3921 on average. Corey reports his load works well for fox. Not sure how it performs on coyotes though.

The sought-after and now discontinued Berger Target Match 25 gr. seems have good reviews as a coyote killer. I managed to get a box and tried it on fox. The results are mixed, with one having a gaping hole, the other not too bad, and yet another looked like it just died of a heart attack, and not even one speck of blood.

What I'm getting at by all this is that finding the perfect or even close round for doing all three, coyotes, fox and bobcats is a very tall order it seems. Velocity plays a big role as does the particular bullet you choose.

If you find something that works well for all three, please be sure to post the results. A lot of guys will be anxious to hear, including myself.

As to using the search feature, maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time with that and can search for days trying to find exactly what I am looking for. Sometimes it's just better to ask a fresh question.

 
Yes, I have used the search function. Not just on this site, but on Google too. I've read tons. Problem is I want a clear answer to a question that doesn't really lend itself to one.

I've definitely read about the challenge of finding a caliber that is good for all three species. My hope was the reduced range that I needed the caliber to be effective at (
 
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I have seen and heard alot of guys looking for the magic caliber/load and end up selling 17-? rifles.
I have not tried but would favor a downloaded.223, .222, or .221 fireball.
Shotgun and .22 mag have sufficed for me at times.
The 5.7x28 has been tempting but never materialized.
 
204 Ruger with 35 grain Bergers. A lot will work, but this is my favorite. The bullet you pick is more important than it's diameter or speed.
 
I use the 22 K-hornet with pretty good success but 200 yards is the top end on coyotes. (Especially our big northerns) It is real easy on the hides and would probably kill better at further ranges with a heavier bullet (I use the 35 grain V-Max as I'm limited by mag space) I've never lost a coyote even though a few needed more than one shot to keep them down.
 
222 or 221 fireball, soft point bullet. That's about as close to magical as I've seen. But you'll have a few coyotes spin from time to time, and a few fox will have a larger than desired exit.... But very few.

I wouldn't go 17.
 
Originally Posted By: kmcdonou

The 17 fireball seems ideal, except quality premade brass isn't available. I could reform from 221 fireball brass from Lapua, but I am not sure how many steps that would take. Is it one step through a resizing die?

Sounds like you are into reloading. This is very doable for you then IMHO. this can be a very Satisfying, rewarding IMHO.
This is what you would be considering with the 17 fireball. Pay through the nose for mediocre brass when you could find it. Or form the 17 FB from .221 or .223 brass.

Defiantly not a 1 step process to form the 17 FB brass. Down side here is accuracy will not likely improve much if any over factory brass. Brass life may well exceed 17 rem Fireball brass if you learn to anneal your brass and head space correctly.

Would not suprise me to much if the same could be true with remingtion brass Anneal properly anneal frequently and head space no more than .002 and a moderate load may allow the factory brass to shine very well.

Personally I would encourage a guy to give forming the 221 FB brass a go if you can afford the time and this fits your personality type. Can be quite an educational experience.

As for equipment you could get by with as little as a Redding or RCBS 2 die 17 fireball set. Though the RCBS Gold medal seating die may be highly recommended. Gold medal seating die will improve how consistently straight you seat your bullets. Dropping the bullets in that side window takes away nearly all frustrations that might come up with handling small bullets with fat fingers.

Oh powder thrower should not be overlooked with the 17's either. 4" Drop tube is a must. Harrels offers the only commercially available 4" drop tubes I am aware of, Very nice clear poly tube I think. Clear tube is Nice to watch and see that your powder had truly made its way into your case. If not you just give the a few taps to settle the powder into your case.
Now if you choose to make your brass from .221 FB brass you will serve yourself well to get a tube of Flitz polish. With the polish a 40 or 44 caliber brush and a cordless drill you may polish up your dies to hugely improve the forming process.

The trick many miss out on including initially myself is using your Redding or RCBS bulllet seater as a first step forming die Don't overlook polishing this die as to tell the truth this is not what this die was designed for. Though this has worked amazingly well for many.

Having polished this 17 FB bullet seater 3 to 4 minutes. You simply clean things up well and proceed to use this die for the first of 2 steps to reduce the 221 neck and sholder down to your 17 fireball neck. Imperial sizing wax or Unique case lube is your friend here. You will do well to do just a few cases till you get things figured out all the way through. You will be looking to set your sizing dies up to allow a very slight crush fit when closing your bolt to control where your case expansion / growth takes place in the shoulder area only.

If you look up Varmint Al's websight he does a great write up on case forming and annealing. Well worth reading should you choose to tackle this small project.

When you get done that expensive Remington Ammo / Brass doesn't seem near as expensive if your time is worth $2.00 per hour
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Depending on your chamber neck diameter, you could end up needing to turn necks as well. If I remember correctly most are able to get by with out turning necks when starting with .221 FB brass.

If this all seems INtimidating to you then you may wish to ponder what velocity you want from your 25 gr Hollow point. 17 Hornady Hornet with a 1710 25 gr HP will Give you up to roughly 3300 FPS In a 17 HH. without all the brass forming Grief.

Or the same 1710 25 GR HP will give you up to roughly 3800 FPS from the 17 FB And for the coyotes You may even consider a Heavier 30-grain Gold, 25 or30-grain Nagel for 3600 ish FPS.

Do a search over on Saubier Fourm on forming 17 FB brass and bullet options including the Hand swaged Nagel or Todd kidner Gold bullets.

Note: that Same 16249 RCBS Gold Medal seater works great with17 Remington, 17,Fireball & with the extended shell holder for 22 hornet 17 Hornet to.

Currently firearms, Ammo & brass are in good supply for the 17 Hornet. Not so-much
with the 17 Fireball.

As mentioned earlier Bullet choice will make more difference than caliber. As always don't over look shot placement. Stay behind that front shoulder.


With the 17 FB I would encourage you to look at Benchmark powder.

17 HH the go to powder may be H322 or Accurate 2200.
 
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I've had good luck with my Remington R15 in .204 shooting .32gr vmax handloads at a little over 3525fps. I thought the .204 would leave large exit holes, but I haven't seen it.
I've got a CFE223 load that's pushing 3900fps I'm going to try this year. If the added velocity starts ruining fur, I'll pry go back to my other load.
I've heard .17 and .22 hornet are both great on thin skinned game such as fox, but have no first hand experience with either.
 
22 hornet has the specs you are looking for, and maybe even 20 practical (this is the one that uses 223 brass and shoots the 20 cal bullet)Doesn't get much easier than finding 223 brass, and you already have the right primers and shell holder. then you just need the .230 bushing to neck it down and there you go.
You won't have to buy new dies and so on.
 
The .22 Hornet may be pretty good or as mentioned going with a lighter bullet in a .204.....the .20 VarTarg would be very nice to have and shoot!
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We shot jackal in Namibia in 2007, mainly using a .22 Hornet and 35 gr. V-Max. It generally killed them, but we had too many runners. We also used a .223 and it dropped them much better. Jackal are larger than a fox but smaller than a coyote. In my opinion, the .22 Hornet and load was just not enough to reliably anchor them well, though it was more fur friendly as I recall.

 
I am very familiar with the 'U.P,', grew up there and have a camp now in the NW section. Just a few comments.

I don't think there is one iron that covers all types of predator hunting. A few sets you are in a thick tag alder/spruce/cedar swamp, then later on you are on the back overlooking a frozen river calling into far side cover. For the most part daylight predators are in the thick 'shotgun range' cover. Any shot you may get is inside 45 yards where a tuned shotgun setup is the best choice.

I also like to error on the side of anchoring predators. I never did like the idea of going to far on the light side for fur. I use the 243 often, it usually just leaves a slightly larger hole on the way out.

An easy choice for a rifle is the common 223, then try different bullets, powders, and loadings. I use a semi-auto shotgun about 90% of the time out calling, unless I know I will be in an area with more open field edges or frozen water. If you don't have one I'd keep a nice semi-auto in mind, a 3" chamber with the right loads is plenty.

As a reloader you can always take a 40 grain V-Max down to 'Hornet' velocities in your current 223. Of course these loads won't cycle a semi-auto action.

For thick cover I'll take the semi-auto shotgun.
 
I am in agreement with Muskrat30 on the lack of one perfect gun for this area. I hunt all over the Northern Lower a lot. Farm fields and clear cuts can require a bigger gun, and the next set in a cedar swamp is 45 yards max and the 22mag is overkill. No matter where I am I always have my 22" 935 with me.

I have "discovered" the 17 Rem and 30 grain bullets, which has mostly replaced my 223 usage for predators. I do think that a 17 Rem would be too much for
 
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