223 fur friendly round...even more confused

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weedsnager

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The more I read, the more confused I get on what is the best 223 fur friendly ammo...yes shot placement is key, I get that. Some people claim the v max is the most fur friendly and some people have the exact opposite opinion, hollow point, soft point, the conflicting info on all of them !
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What is the game being shot - fox, coyotes and bobcats all have much different body sizes and densities? Estimated distances? Everybody's gonna look at it a bit differently too. Some guys will pass if they don't get the right angle. Some guys don't want one animal out of their sight, no matter how much of a hole they need to sew, or how many bones they needa go thru. Some don't even save the hides so they don't care - dead is dead, except DRT is better. In snow, tracking a little as needed isn't so bad.

Looks like you've done some searching and reading. Now go kill something and learn for yourself whose opinions meet your's.
 
The most fur friendly I've found are 45 grain hollowpoints. Have had really good luck with Hornady 52 grain bthp's as well. Mixed results with 55 grain V-Max. I don't like softpoints except in a bigger caliber for shooting feral hogs and things like that. They come out most of the time on coyotes or at least they have for me any time I have used them. I try to have an entry hole and no exit. V-Max bullets will exit alot of times on a broadside shot but not always. A frontal shot to the chest you can get away with shooting pretty much all of them and not worry about the bullet coming out. A poor hit will result in fur damage with just about any of them also. At least in my experience that seems to be the case. I run 52 grain bthp's in my bolt gun and 45 grain hp's in my AR. Have had less runners with the 52's.
 
Mike B is right. I don't think there's really a right answer. All shots will be different. All of them have potential to be fur friendly if shot placement is right. I've shot bobcats in the chest from as close as 30 yards with a 52 grain bthp and the hole was hardly noticeable. I've shot some standing broadside at the same distance with the same bullet and it blew straight through them...some didn't. The bullet hit something extra and stopped on the ones that didn't. I've shot a coyote in the head at 70 yards with a 55 grain V-Max and it only left a little hole. I've shot several others from the same distance behind the shoulder and the V-Max ripped them wide open on the other side. Why that happened I can't say. But I can sew pretty good so it wasn't a big deal. I've seen coyotes shot with a .243 and a .308 in the chest and there was no exit. Again it just comes down to shot placement I believe. All you can do is find a bullet that consistantly dumps critters without tearing them up and use a needle and fishing line on the ones that are tore up something bad awful. Dime sized exits.....no big deal. Fist sized exits.....gross. If you shoot enough critters you'll have some of both.
 
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Originally Posted By: OKRattlerThe most fur friendly I've found are 45 grain hollowpoints. Have had really good luck with Hornady 52 grain bthp's as well. Mixed results with 55 grain V-Max. I don't like softpoints except in a bigger caliber for shooting feral hogs and things like that. They come out most of the time on coyotes or at least they have for me any time I have used them. I try to have an entry hole and no exit. V-Max bullets will exit alot of times on a broadside shot but not always. A frontal shot to the chest you can get away with shooting pretty much all of them and not worry about the bullet coming out. A poor hit will result in fur damage with just about any of them also. At least in my experience that seems to be the case. I run 52 grain bthp's in my bolt gun and 45 grain hp's in my AR. Have had less runners with the 52's.

This article in Fur fish and game stated the same thing, he likes hollow points also

http://www.furfishgame.com/featured_articles/Archived/2011-10/game_calling_10-2011.php
 
I have had the best luck using 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. The high velocity and low weight reduces penetration and the tapered jacket with the heavy base keep them from splashing in impact or turning on an angled shoulder.

Worked great on cats and coyotes but has been to destructive on foxes if you want to save fur.

Another advantage is the the BC of the 40gr NBTs is comparable to a lot of 50 and 55gr bullets with big hollowpoints and flat bases.
 
My 1 in 9 20 in Bushmaster does not shoot the 40-45 gr bullets as well as the 50 gr and heavier bullets. The best non tipped bullet I have found is the Hornady 50 gr SX, this bullet will not exit inside 200 yards and no splash have even head shot some large raccoon at close range and could stretcher them without sewing. Try for 3200 or just under at the muzzle and you should be happy with the performance.
 
Im using 52gr varmint Bergers. I load them with 26gr H355(temp sensative powder) and shoot them usually between -5 and 15 degrees. It feels like a soft load but I have tested them only for groups at 100 yards and damage on the pelts.

They are super accurate, my first accurate load was making a mess of coyotes so I moved to a lower charge that worked well and really like how they save hides and put coyotes down.

It's hard to find what works best for you on the internet. Choose what you want to try and tailor it to work for you. But I could dang near guarentee you arent going to find your favorite load sitting online.
 
I have skinned, fleshed, and sold about 20 coyotes a year for about 5 years now. (some years more than other)

I have tried HP bullets only to have it blow pieces of fur off the backside of the body after the bullet passed through.
I did that to a very nice lynx and almost cried.. There is no sewing a cantelope size chunk of fur back on without it showing.. I tried.

I hate spending time sewing.. But i really hate loosing a coyote or tracking them. I want a bullet that drops them dead on the spot. Face plant in the dirt type of thing..
It never happened for me with HP, or SP bullets.

Vmax anchors them, and they are a lot easier to find when they drop right where you shot them.

The other thing is that you are going to get a splash or blowout that may happen if you hit a shoulder no matter what type of bullet you use.. As long as i do my job that bullet goes in, and doesn't come out. usually its a small hole that in 10 minutes starts leaking a slow drip.
I don't have to sew those holes. But if i do get damage the time that i save not looking for them is typcially less than the time i have to spend sewing. If i do sew, it's usually only about 10 stiches and at worst maybe 20-30. Still not a big deal, and takes less time to do than fleshing.
 
Originally Posted By: weedsnagerThe more I read, the more confused I get on what is the best 223 fur friendly ammo...yes shot placement is key, I get that. Some people claim the v max is the most fur friendly and some people have the exact opposite opinion, hollow point, soft point, the conflicting info on all of them !
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No wonder you are confused!!!! Not counting your original post all but one recommend high velocity, high explosive, high expansion, thin jacketed type bullets. Maybe I read this wrong somewhere but what I thought you asked was "fur friendly"??? I take that to mean least amount of damage to the pelt so you can have the best possible mount, tanned hide???? The answers given so far make me think you want the animal dead right there, dropped in his tracks regardless of whether the thing is blown in half, zero tracking, don't want to waste a single second looking for it and do not care about the damage.
The animals you are talking about cannot stand a hit, cannot continue to live with a nice clean hole drilled by a 223. Full metal jacket type non expanding bullets are as fur friendly as it gets. I cannot imagine what the previous posters would recommend bullet wise if you ask for DRT, maximum kill, maximum guaranteed not to move another step bullets!!!! Short of going with some sort of explosive charge in the bullet, they are already there. I have done taxidermy for a pretty long time, get FMJ bullets, drill a nice clean hole and mount or tan a beautiful hide. The absolute last thing you want is a bullet that expands...at all.
 
FMJ's will do the trick if its a perfect hit. But coyotes don't always offer the best shot possible. I've seen coyotes run a long ways after taking solid hits with HP's,V-Max and SP bullets. When I shoot one I want the energy from the bullet staying inside the critter causing the organs to be turned to jelly and leaving the pelt virtually unharmed. Get a bullet too lightly constructed and you'll get a "splash" if bones are hit. A bullet too heavily constructed will go straight through and possibly leave a bigger hole than necessary. FMJ's are a plinking round. They wound critters and not only that but they ricochet or tumble when they hit bone and still make a mess. I'm not a fan of them but that's just my opinion.
 
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Quote:The absolute last thing you want is a bullet that expands...at all.

I can't disagree more. The last thing you want is an animal that runs off and you can't find it. If you are hunting the great plains where you can watch it run a mile then ok. But if it runs (and it will with a fmj) then you very likely won't find it most places.

An explosive bullet that doesn't exit is what you want. A small entry and no exit.


60 vmax and don't worry about it.
 
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I know from my own experience that 221 nosler 40gr factory loads are toooooooo Hottttttt for even coyotes. I shot one last year and he was broadside......little hole in baseball size hole out!

Steve
 
the reason your confused is some people think they know everything because they have shot 7 or 8 coyotes. The other is just because the coyote is dead doesn't mean the bullet worked as it should have. This group doesn't examine to see what exactly happened. the other problem is people are shooting at way different speeds especially with a 223. is it shot from a 16" ar or a 24" bolt gun. You have a pretty big difference in speed there. add to that guys chiming in shooting 22-250's at 3800 fps.
 
The best luck I have had was the 55gr Rem CLHP bullet (not the JHP) in the 22-250 and 223. Held together pretty well. The tipped bullets have always left big holes for me.
 
Originally Posted By: OKRattlerFMJ's will do the trick if its a perfect hit. But coyotes don't always offer the best shot possible. I've seen coyotes run a long ways after taking solid hits with HP's,V-Max and SP bullets. When I shoot one I want the energy from the bullet staying inside the critter causing the organs to be turned to jelly and leaving the pelt virtually unharmed. Get a bullet too lightly constructed and you'll get a "splash" if bones are hit. A bullet too heavily constructed will go straight through and possibly leave a bigger hole than necessary. FMJ's are a plinking round. They wound critters and not only that but they ricochet or tumble when they hit bone and still make a mess. I'm not a fan of them but that's just my opinion.

FMJ's are illegal for hunting in some states, Arizona is one of them.
I have a friend that has tried using FMJs and every single time we watch the coyote go over the hill. Its a almost certain tracking deal. He has since changed to Vmax.

I like a round that goes in and stops. thus delivering a quick kill and most of the time a fur friendly. If you don't want the chance of a blow out. Use a slow moving round. get them really close and use a 22lr. or shotgun. But fast moving bullets are going to cause an occasional issue.
 
I agree. I don't shoot anything except paper with FMJ's. I shoot a 16" bolt gun and AR so can't say what the difference in barrel length would have on how the bullet performs. All I know is I've had the best results with 45 and 52 grain hollowpoints. That's not just on coyotes but bobcats,badgers and raccoons also. I've also shot prairie dogs,skunks,porcupines,feral cats and jackrabbits with them. Even on a feral cat or skunk they won't pass through unless you shoot them broadside. There's a heck of a thud and the belly of the critter looks like you filled it up with water because the insides are mush but there's only one hole. I'm not a know it all or want to seem like I am. I've just killed alot of critters of all shapes and sizes with a bunch of different types of bullet so I do know a little bit. High velocity frangible thin jacketed bullets such as the Varmint Grenade are good for prairie dogs and small varmints but I've found they aren't as good on coyotes. I shoot bullets that stay together,punch through muscle and bone and mushroom out to stop inside of whatever I shoot. I never had any luck with 55 grain HP's for whatever reason. Whatever I shot with them was getting obliterated whether it was a prairie dog or coyote. Had bad luck with 50 grain V-Max also but had the exact opposite problem. Every coyote I shot I either had to shoot multiple times or it got away so I stopped using them. Different bullet styles and makes of bullets will perform differently. You can read about it and hear different opinions but all you really can do is try different things and see what works for you. I don't know everything there is to know because there are still alot of bullets I haven't shot a coyote with. The only good solid advice I can give is don't start out shootin critters with FMJ's unless you're wanting to test your tracking skills.
 
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