New AR Build questions and input!

H

hunterED

New member
Hey guys I'm new both to this forum and predator hunting but I have the bug something awful. I have a dpms oracle that i plan to repurpose for use as a dedicated coyote gun. However I have several questions and could use everyone's input before starting! I have spent the last 2 weeks doing research and here is what i have come up with.

Base gun: DPMS oracle 16"

Additions:
Vortex viper HS-T 4-16 x 44
Magpul PRS
geissele trigger (probably the SSA-E or SD-E)
caldwell pivot bipod
free float tube

Input on alternatives to what I have listed or confirmation that those will be great for a dedicated target/coyote gun would be greatly appreciated!

My two biggest questions are this. What length tube and are there any specific you recomend? I have looked very closely at the 15" diamond series from YHM. But this brings me to my next question. Anybody use a 16" barrel at longer distances? I want to upgrade my barrel down the road but as the current one is practically brand new and i want to start hunting asap with as little funds as possible im thinking that may be a later addition. Because of this i am thinking I should go ahead and get a extended rifle length tube now in order to not have to buy a longer one down the road. Basically i want to float the barrel for accuracy and also mount a bipod far enough out for stability but I dont want to buy a 12' now and then need a 15' in 8 months when/if I decide to upgrade the barrel.

Any and all input welcome, esp if you think I missed somehting. Thanks in advance!!
 
12" is the normal rifle length, you won't need to upgrade later unless you want to cover the gas block on the rifle length tube.

Either way consider a Young free float. JSE carries them, the rifle length is $50 for the vented one and extended is a bit more. They are a great tube for the money, and can be removed/reinstalled without drilling new holes for the sling stud.

PRS are a good stock but heavier than I would want on a calling rifle. And I gave up on bipods for calling early on, sticks are way handier/more versatile. How long are shots typically in the southeast? Might get by with a smaller scope too.

JMO
 
Before modifying that gun, how does it shoot? Why drop 1k on a $600 gun if you dont have to. You might be better off saving for the next one and selling that one when the time comes.
 
I believe that a rifle length will cover my gas block. (or my FSB which ill replace with a block or trim to fit) so that isn't a concern as ill have to deal with it at either length. Just checked out the young and like it esp for the price as you mentioned. Does it mount pretty solid? I have heard that is a concern on some handguards.

PRS is heavier however im still young and already have a great pack I use for deer hunting that carries a woodstock hunting rifle with belt straps so Im hoping the marginal increase in weight wont be an issue. (hopefully) In the past I have had issues with comb height on ARS resulting in a sore neck and think id rather have sore legs. hopefully this isnt an error in judgement! Thanks so much for the response and insight!!
 
Originally Posted By: dogtired You might be better off saving for the next one and selling that one when the time comes.

This has crossed my mind and is another possiblity. However as a recent college grad I have two issue making me lean toward building with this gun: (A.) Im wanting to spend more time from now till next fall, when i will be presumably be entering professional school, in the woods hunting as i havent been able to do so much recently. (B.) I also have limited funds. Everything minus the scope (which i would need either route) I should be able to get the parts for under 500 by scouring the web and forum ads for sales.

Again I realize the oracle isn't guaranteed like a RRA predator presuit but im hoping that with quality parts and doing my part as a shooter i can get MOA or better groups? If im off my rocker in this thinking feel free to tell me you wont hurt my pride. I just have limited time to save and a fixed income to save from and want to start hunting and shooting asap.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 AR How long are shots typically in the southeast? Might get by with a smaller scope too.

Forgot to answer your question sorry. I will be planning to hunt mostly farmlands (actually plan to ask this on another thread post rifle build) and pasture. I also plan to use this as a medium range precision target rifle when not hunting/developing skills out to 500 or 600 yards which is why I chose that scope. Obviously don't plan on humanely killing a coyote at those ranges but would like to be able hunt effectively over large fields to several hundred yards.
 
HunterED,,,Your 16" barrel will work for most Coyote shooting (remember, the trick is to call them to you) and can be very accurate out to 300 yards if you reload and build your own rounds that are matched to the rifle...Personally, I would stay with a 1/9, or 1/8, twist rate in the barrel...I've found the 1/7s can be a little finicky about bullet type that they like,,,

For shooting 400-600+ yards, you might want to consider a 20", or longer, barrel unless you have already developed shooting skills at those ranges for target work..Wind reading skills begin to play a large part in successful shooting past 400 yards....If you can find some surplus smoke grenades, have a second person pop one at different distances (75 and 150 yards) on an open field and observe what the wind currents do as they 'roll' across the open spaces....Then you will realize the different directions that can affect the bullet while on the way to the target...
 
If the free float tube that you buy is longer than carbine length you will have to replace the gas block with a low profile one.
 
I am not following your math, the Geissele will cost $250 and is never a bad purchase. The rest for $250 is pushing it (where the PRS is over $200). I think you would be fine with a 3x9 scope or a fixed 4 or 6x. I live in an area where you can shoot at coyotes over 400 yards, but believe me, it ain't easy to see them to shoot at them that far away.

Buy some quality ammo, a decent scope and shoot that thing. It has been said that "it ain't the arrow but the indian", prove you and your rifle can shoot. Once you prove both, come up with a build list and start building what you want. You mention that you are a young fella, I was once one also. Charging into coyote hunting and having a target/coyote rifle are really two different things. Post a few groups from that rifle for us to evaluate to see if its the arrow or the indian.

That gun should hit a coyote at 200 yards easily. Post a few 200 yard groups too.
 
Last edited:
Oracle $600
Vortex Viper HST $550
Magpul PRS $200
Geissele SSA $220
Bipod $50
Cheap FF tube $100 at min.

Brother that is not a poor man's coyote rifle.

I would look at an 18" barrel with rifle gas. Very popular these days for 3 gun and SPR builds.
I would look at Blem uppers/lowers to save money. Krylon fixes a lot of blems.
Midway has a really good deal on a high magnification scope if you want one of those for about $100. (Simmons Whitetail Classic)
There are decent triggers in the $100 or less but learning to shoot a mil-spec trigger well goes a long way.
A case of decent ammo would help.

Remember, you asked for help. ;-)
 
http://www.redbarnarmory.com/RBA-750-Low-Profile-Adjustable-Gas-Block-BLEM-p/rbalp750adj-blem.htm

$20 adjustable gas block blems are on sale right now if that helps
smile.gif




also re: free float tubes - dont discount the UTG pro series Super Slims - they're a nice budget free float tube and seem to be very sturdy, they use a proprietary barrel nut, but i'm fine with that. I've got their 13" version on my 223 upper and its very comfortable in the hand, indexes nicely and was a very easy install. yes it will require a low pro gas block, but most FF handguards do.
 
You've gotten a lot of advice already. A lot will depend on what you want to spend. Have you shot it as is from a bench to see what kind of potential it might have?

Here's what I would do to an Oracle for myself. Replace handguards with Young rifle length vented tube- $50. This tube is solid and would allow easy re-use if I changed the barrel later. You will need a lo-pro gas block with it. The option listed above from Redbarn is a good deal.

Two-stage trigger from RRA, $90. Not as nice as a Geissle maybe, but I can tune them to where they are very darn good and light.

Replace carbine stock with a Magpul MOE or CTR (I think those are the models). Leaving the factory buffer tube, buffer and spring. $50 or so.

That's really it unless it totally shot like crap then I'd order a new barrel from BHW, around $250 for one that's ready to ship, probably 18" mid length or rifle length gas.
 
Wow, first off thanks to everyone for the outpouring of input! I genuinely appreciate all the advice and didn't expect to see such a great response for the posts first day so thanks again PM community! Bear with me as I try and address all the great suggestions and ideas.

Originally Posted By: oldturtle ..can be very accurate out to 300 yards
That is exactly what I was hoping to hear although I wasn't actually expecting but maybe 200 with that 16" barrel. Thank you for your insight on specific distances. Also I have always enjoyed stretching the limits with hunting rifles such as my .308 but I havent ever had a rifle set up closer to a target setup with mil/mil scope like this one. Also thanks for the surplus smoke idea!! I hadn't thought of that and will def. incorporate it into my skill building time at the range!

Originally Posted By: dogtiredI am not following your math.....

Post a few groups from that rifle for us to evaluate to see if its the arrow or the indian.

That gun should hit a coyote at 200 yards easily. Post a few 200 yard groups too.

I should elaborate on the parts list I plan on finding the best deals/ slightly used to save as much as possible. I have being a broke college student to thank for my ability to find the best deals. For example i found the PRS stock that a guy bought and decided he didn't like posted for sale on another forum. Shipped it will run me slightly over $150 for a practically NIB stock. Admittedly the Geiselle will be harder to find a deal on but I'm hoping a friend who is a distributor can hook me up with it for under MSRP perhaps.

Also for the cost list you supplied are you considering I have to buy the oracle? Just trying to clarify. I also drooled over the link you generously provided of the colt. My problem is this. The oracle is sitting in the safe at home as I received it as a gift and its just begging to be used with a purpose. I find it hard to rationalize buying a whole separate gun when i could have the one I currently own fit to my likes and needs for the same cost or even less. Just my frame of thinking but, as always, I'm open to alternative ideas!

Originally Posted By: dogtired Post a few groups from that rifle for us to evaluate to see if its the arrow or the indian.

That gun should hit a coyote at 200 yards easily. Post a few 200 yard groups too.

Originally Posted By: 204 ARHave you shot it as is from a bench to see what kind of potential it might have?

These are absolutely great ideas and I am disappointed I didn't think of them myself! After all ill take any excuse to go shoot at the range while waiting funds and making a final decision to build. I will pull a scope off one of my hunting rifles to use for initial performance test and try and go shoot this weekend if the rain holds off! Ill post pics when I do! Thanks again for all the input and please keep any and all suggestions pouring in.
 
Almost all production barrels will have a degree of tool marks unless it has been professionally hand lapped...The lapping basically does what extended shooting does except while the lapping is smoothing out the finish of the bore by the application of a finishing compound, the movement of the copper plated bullet over the surface does it by 'burnishing, the metal and it leaves a layer of copper that needs to be removed between 'burnishing' applications...

I can remember when I was in high school shop class and the instructor was teaching us how to use a burnishing rod to put the final edge on a wood chisel and think it's much the same with a barrel..

It's one of the reasons I advocate shooting a couple hundred rounds of cheap military FMJ ammo through the rifle before attempting to build accurate loads for it...
 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleIt's one of the reasons I advocate shooting a couple hundred rounds of cheap military FMJ ammo through the rifle before attempting to build accurate loads for it...

Sounds like i have my work cut out at the range which is fine by me. I will plan on using fmj ammo and the process you and others outlined in that previous post then. Thanks for your help again!
 
Forgot this in my other post. To many great suggestions to respond to at once!

Originally Posted By: Plant.One $20 adjustable gas block blems are on sale right now if that helps
smile.gif


That is a great deal thanks for sharing! My only question is how do I tell if that is the diameter i need? Wasn't sure if they are universal or not and the dpms website doesnt say barrel diameter as best i can tell?
 
So i am not new to the forum as i just browse and never post. Just yesterday evening i took a friend out and scored a double on some coyotes, so needless to say his addiction is now confirmed. I am trying to build him a cheaper budget but yet extremely simple AR. This is what i have come up with as for the amount he will use it will not be worthy or spending over 500 bucks

here it is

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm

for the lower

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1994/products_id/411554572/CORE15%C2%AE+MOE+M4+Upper+16%E2%80%9D+OD+Green+1%3A9+wLPGB+%28Low+Profile+Gas+Block%29

for the upper

I know you can fire a 223 in a 5.56x45 but not the other way around...Now do you think there would be accuracy issues at around 100 yds?

i want to make sure of this setup for a solid 100 yd gun and just something to plink with if the feeling comes up. Also asking if they are compatible or if anyone has any reviews. Lastly if anyone think anything else will be needed besides a scope which he has a good leupold to put on it. Just want to make sure it a quick pin and zero in and ready to go setup.

Thanks in advance everyone!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top