A buddy and myself are getting into long range shooting, ultimately we want to reach the one mile mark (1760 yards). I am currently faced with a decision to make and that is do I buy a new gun, price range is around $1000 for the gun. Or do I have a current Remington model 700, that I own, semi custom made. What I mean is having the barrel replaced with a heavier premium barrel and replace the stock as well. As you know that can reach $1000 in replacing those two items on the Remy.. I am also torn on the decision of caliber to use for this project. The new gun would come in 300 Win. Mag.. The current Remington I own is chambered in 300 Ultra Mag.. I already have the dies, brass, powder,and load data made up for the Ultra.. The problem with the Ultra as it sits is the fact that its a light weight custom mountain rifle. The sporter barrel heats up pretty quick. So lets hear some opinions and ideas.
The One Mile Project.
- Thread starter Rubenator
- Start date
Is your current rifle accurate and holds zero?
If so, I would borrow a high powered scope, cut out a 30" circle from plywood, paint it white and walk bullets in until you know you're zero at 1760.
Then go out the next day, fire 2-3 rounds and if they're hits you're all done. I wouldn't spend tons of money just to see if you can do something. You can, I'm sure of it.
If you're just wanting to shoot at a mile all the time then I would build a 338. For me, about 6 months of carrying around a 338 that weighed 30 pounds with a 45x strapped on top was plenty to get me out of the long range shooting habit, lol.
You'll either be hooked or be like me and say well.... Been there done that, moving on.
If so, I would borrow a high powered scope, cut out a 30" circle from plywood, paint it white and walk bullets in until you know you're zero at 1760.
Then go out the next day, fire 2-3 rounds and if they're hits you're all done. I wouldn't spend tons of money just to see if you can do something. You can, I'm sure of it.
If you're just wanting to shoot at a mile all the time then I would build a 338. For me, about 6 months of carrying around a 338 that weighed 30 pounds with a 45x strapped on top was plenty to get me out of the long range shooting habit, lol.
You'll either be hooked or be like me and say well.... Been there done that, moving on.
Well not exactly accurate. I finally found a load combination the current rifle likes using 168gr. A-Max bullets and H1000 powder. 3 shot group 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I would really like to use the bullets that weigh over 200gr. but so far 1 1/2 inch groups seem to be the norm.. Thats not acceptable in my book. Thats why I was thinking a custom barrel with fast twist and deep throat to accept the larger bullets. (Up to 240gr.) Correct me if I am wrong but there doesnt seem to be much difference between the Ultra and the Lapua in ballistics. The Lapua does offer bullets up to 300 gr., that I am aware of.
Eugene Canterbury
New member
Your 300rum can do it, but what scope are you using? With a 300 win mag shooting a 190 matchking it takes over 80 MOA to get to a mile. I mean after 1500 yards that bullet drops about 1 MOA for every 10 yards of travel. So you need to have a scope with over 100 MOA of internal adjustment, and a 20 MOA scope rail. How fast can your 300 rum push a 168 berger? That could save you almost 20 MOA by using the rum over the 300 win mag I think. How does your 300 rum shoot at 1000 now? And how many MOA do you need to get to 1000, with a 100 yard zero? At a mile you are going hundreds of yards while transonic, so who really know what the real numbers will be until you do it.
I have yet shot out to 1000 yards. Last weekend we were shooting the 243 at 709 yards with no problem. Then we got to talking about the eventual mile and what it would take to reach that distance. As for the scope I am eyeballing the Leupold VX3 LR, I believe it has 90 MOA. I tell you what made a believer out of me are those ballistic apps.. Never shot past 500 yards until last weekend and the app put us on target with first shot! Of course now we want to stretch it out to half mile (880 yards) in short order.
skinney
Director
Originally Posted By: RubenatorWell not exactly accurate. I finally found a load combination the current rifle likes using 168gr. A-Max bullets and H1000 powder. 3 shot group 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I would really like to use the bullets that weigh over 200gr. but so far 1 1/2 inch groups seem to be the norm.. Thats not acceptable in my book. Thats why I was thinking a custom barrel with fast twist and deep throat to accept the larger bullets. (Up to 240gr.) Correct me if I am wrong but there doesnt seem to be much difference between the Ultra and the Lapua in ballistics. The Lapua does offer bullets up to 300 gr., that I am aware of.
Just because your rifle is shooting 3/4 or 1.5 MOA doesn't mean it's not "accurate", it does however mean, it's not precise...
For LR work you'll need both, remember that your 3/4" group @ 100 is going to open up to about 8" @ a grand, and over a foot @ a mile, and that is just the rifles capability. All it is, is a math problem, start cancelling variables, starting with your rifles capabilities as well as yours... Before you know it, your there.
I've taken my 338 Norma to 2050 on an MOA plate, it's a good time.
Just because your rifle is shooting 3/4 or 1.5 MOA doesn't mean it's not "accurate", it does however mean, it's not precise...
For LR work you'll need both, remember that your 3/4" group @ 100 is going to open up to about 8" @ a grand, and over a foot @ a mile, and that is just the rifles capability. All it is, is a math problem, start cancelling variables, starting with your rifles capabilities as well as yours... Before you know it, your there.
I've taken my 338 Norma to 2050 on an MOA plate, it's a good time.
kyyotestalker
New member
Best case scenario your gonna need 70moa of USABLE Elevation adjustment to reach a mile from a 100 yard zero with either 300wm or 300 ultra. Your best bet is to rebuild your current rifle and select a better scope for ELR shooting. I'd suggest if your serious about this goal then buy a vortex razor HD 5-20x50 while there are still on sale for $1350 and then rebarrel your 300rum with a 28-30 inch 10 twist heavy barrel with break and Bed it in a quality stock or chassis the is most comfortable to you. Most ballistic apps get finicky past 1200yrds so don't expect to get a hit the first trip you take to the 1 mile mark! Personally I would Rebarrel your 300RUM with a 30 Inch 9.5 twist 338 EDGE instead of the 300RUM just for the better Ballistics and less wind drift!
Varminterror
New member
I may be missing something here, but I'll share a few thoughts...
[*]Most important thing to me is this question: "What degree of accuracy are you expecting at 1760yrds? Are you talking about sub-MOA? 1MOA? 4MOA? If you're happy to simply hit a pick-up truck at a mile, then you're not asking very much. Take out a half sheet (4ft x 4ft) of ply-wood, prop it up at 1mile, point your rifle way up in the air above it, and hit it. If you're wanting to hit a game-sized target at a mile, then things get a bit more interesting.[*]Here are a few "helpers" if you can't get enough elevation adjustment into your scope and bases: Mil-dot or other ranging reticles can give you 15-20MOA of "in view" elevation compensation. Putting an artificial aiming point at a known height above your target can also help you compensate for bullet drop - if I put a 2MOA circle (~30") on a 20ft post above a 4ft target, that's basically an extra 11MOA of elevation that I can compensate for. So if I put the bottom post of a mil-dot reticle (5mil = ~18MOA) on an aiming point 16ft above my target (11MOA hold over), that's 29MOA of free elevation adjustment before I even touch my scope or base.[*]Where you take your shot and on which day will make a lot of difference in how easy it is. You can't go shoot 1mile just anywhere, so as you're thinking about everything else in this equation, think about the range you'll use too. I have a few places where I can shoot up to 1600yrds, some are wide open looking down a gentle hill and I can shoot into or with the wind instead of across it, whereas other "ranges" I use are in a valley among hills where breaks in the hills around it make for switching or swirling wind conditions along the entire path. As expected, one of these choices is more frustrating than the others. So look at where you'll be shooting and how it could make your shot easier or more difficult.[*]If you rebarrel and restock your lightweight mountain 700, it won't be a lightweight mountain 700 any more, as it could be a heavy barreled rifle with a full BR stock. It also doesn't have to be a 300RUM any more, as you'll have the option of making it whatever you want that will fit the bolt face (or replace the bolt as well).[*]I'd be looking for the highest BC bullet I can get for this job. Velocity can't outrun aerodynamics, so find a bullet profile and weight that produces a high enough velocity to stabilize well, then produce a sustained super-sonic velocity across the entire range.[*]$1000 would not, in my mind, buy a proper RIG for this job. A proper scope, MAYBE, a proper rifle, MAYBE, but not a complete rifle & scope together.[*]I don't know Rubenator at all and I don't mean this to be offensive in the least, but when you're saying that 500yrds and more is new to you, I have to ask - when is someone going to start asking about the Indian, instead of just talking about the arrow? I've generally seen a breaking point where most shooters fall off after 300yrds, then another majority group falls off at 600yrds. 1760yrds is a long [beeep] ways, regardless of what rig you're shooting.[/list]
I'm certain you can get it done, these are just 'food for thought' items that come into my mind. I've done quite a bit of 500-800yrd shooting, enough 1,000yrd shooting to have realized I wasn't ever going to be competitive, and a bit of 1,200-1,600yrd "see if we can hit anything" fun shooting that I'd see this as a VERY daunting proposition, unless the accuracy requirement isn't very strict. I'd call 3MOA at 1760yrds a success for me, but maybe you're expecting better.
[*]Most important thing to me is this question: "What degree of accuracy are you expecting at 1760yrds? Are you talking about sub-MOA? 1MOA? 4MOA? If you're happy to simply hit a pick-up truck at a mile, then you're not asking very much. Take out a half sheet (4ft x 4ft) of ply-wood, prop it up at 1mile, point your rifle way up in the air above it, and hit it. If you're wanting to hit a game-sized target at a mile, then things get a bit more interesting.[*]Here are a few "helpers" if you can't get enough elevation adjustment into your scope and bases: Mil-dot or other ranging reticles can give you 15-20MOA of "in view" elevation compensation. Putting an artificial aiming point at a known height above your target can also help you compensate for bullet drop - if I put a 2MOA circle (~30") on a 20ft post above a 4ft target, that's basically an extra 11MOA of elevation that I can compensate for. So if I put the bottom post of a mil-dot reticle (5mil = ~18MOA) on an aiming point 16ft above my target (11MOA hold over), that's 29MOA of free elevation adjustment before I even touch my scope or base.[*]Where you take your shot and on which day will make a lot of difference in how easy it is. You can't go shoot 1mile just anywhere, so as you're thinking about everything else in this equation, think about the range you'll use too. I have a few places where I can shoot up to 1600yrds, some are wide open looking down a gentle hill and I can shoot into or with the wind instead of across it, whereas other "ranges" I use are in a valley among hills where breaks in the hills around it make for switching or swirling wind conditions along the entire path. As expected, one of these choices is more frustrating than the others. So look at where you'll be shooting and how it could make your shot easier or more difficult.[*]If you rebarrel and restock your lightweight mountain 700, it won't be a lightweight mountain 700 any more, as it could be a heavy barreled rifle with a full BR stock. It also doesn't have to be a 300RUM any more, as you'll have the option of making it whatever you want that will fit the bolt face (or replace the bolt as well).[*]I'd be looking for the highest BC bullet I can get for this job. Velocity can't outrun aerodynamics, so find a bullet profile and weight that produces a high enough velocity to stabilize well, then produce a sustained super-sonic velocity across the entire range.[*]$1000 would not, in my mind, buy a proper RIG for this job. A proper scope, MAYBE, a proper rifle, MAYBE, but not a complete rifle & scope together.[*]I don't know Rubenator at all and I don't mean this to be offensive in the least, but when you're saying that 500yrds and more is new to you, I have to ask - when is someone going to start asking about the Indian, instead of just talking about the arrow? I've generally seen a breaking point where most shooters fall off after 300yrds, then another majority group falls off at 600yrds. 1760yrds is a long [beeep] ways, regardless of what rig you're shooting.[/list]
I'm certain you can get it done, these are just 'food for thought' items that come into my mind. I've done quite a bit of 500-800yrd shooting, enough 1,000yrd shooting to have realized I wasn't ever going to be competitive, and a bit of 1,200-1,600yrd "see if we can hit anything" fun shooting that I'd see this as a VERY daunting proposition, unless the accuracy requirement isn't very strict. I'd call 3MOA at 1760yrds a success for me, but maybe you're expecting better.
Thanks for your time Varminterror. Its just a friendly competition between a couple buddies and I. We have set a standard to a 24x24 inch AR500 steel plate for a target. My "budget" for this project is roughly $2000. I figured a grand on glass, (Leupold 8.5x24x50 LR with 94 MOA adjustment), and a grand in a gun. I can get a nice new Savage for that, OR I could dump that $$ into existing Remington 700. Transform that thing into a long range rig with heavy barrel with fast twist and a decent stock to allow for larger barrel. As mentioned earlier the Remington is a 300 Ultra Mag and I am already familiar with reloading for that round. I have been eyeballing Berger 230gr. bullets with B.C. of .743. Cant get much higher than that I dont think. The area we are currently shooting allows for 960 yards available and for the most part "out of the wind". Its in a bottom surrounded by hills topped with trees. Cuts the wind by quite a bit. We are taking this in baby steps to learn. Its not like we are going from 500 yards and the next shot out to a mile. As mentioned earlier we shot out to 709 yards with 243 Win. and that was a blast, even put my 15 year old daughter behind the gun and we were hitting with every shot. Again lots of fun.
ninehorses
New member
Since you already have the 300 RUM, it would be a easy barrel swap to a 338 Edge. You just neck up your 300 RUM brass. A HS stock, and a 20 MOA base. You can then push a 300 grain Berger like the 338 Lapua does. You will need to brake it, but there are several options there. You should be able to get there with your budget. Savage makes a 338 Lapua in a HS stock that runs around $1200-$1400, so this might be another option.
450 Dakota
Member
If you go with an ultra mag case you will have to seat the long high ballistic coefficient bullets deep in the case with standard magazine. I am thinking the new 28 Nosler with a 180 berger would work well in that action. Plenty of powder and plenty of room to seat the bullet out. Just a barrel job as far as metalwork is concerned and trying the action if you choose.
littledawg
New member
Originally Posted By: RubenatorThanks for your time Varminterror. Its just a friendly competition between a couple buddies and I. We have set a standard to a 24x24 inch AR500 steel plate for a target. My "budget" for this project is roughly $2000. I figured a grand on glass, (Leupold 8.5x24x50 LR with 94 MOA adjustment), and a grand in a gun. I can get a nice new Savage for that, OR I could dump that $$ into existing Remington 700. Transform that thing into a long range rig with heavy barrel with fast twist and a decent stock to allow for larger barrel. As mentioned earlier the Remington is a 300 Ultra Mag and I am already familiar with reloading for that round. I have been eyeballing Berger 230gr. bullets with B.C. of .743. Cant get much higher than that I dont think. The area we are currently shooting allows for 960 yards available and for the most part "out of the wind". Its in a bottom surrounded by hills topped with trees. Cuts the wind by quite a bit. We are taking this in baby steps to learn. Its not like we are going from 500 yards and the next shot out to a mile. As mentioned earlier we shot out to 709 yards with 243 Win. and that was a blast, even put my 15 year old daughter behind the gun and we were hitting with every shot. Again lots of fun.
I think your under estimating the actual cost for a build. It will most likely cost a grand for just the barrel and smith work on a 700.
I think your under estimating the actual cost for a build. It will most likely cost a grand for just the barrel and smith work on a 700.
Varminterror
New member
Originally Posted By: littledawgI think your under estimating the actual cost for a build. It will most likely cost a grand for just the barrel and smith work on a 700.
Where are you getting that number? I have NEVER paid $1000 to have a 700 rebarreled.
Shilen short chambered barrel = $450, install & finish chamber = ~$100-150.
The last 700 I sent out to get blue-printed and rebarreled didn't even go over $1000!
Where are you getting that number? I have NEVER paid $1000 to have a 700 rebarreled.
Shilen short chambered barrel = $450, install & finish chamber = ~$100-150.
The last 700 I sent out to get blue-printed and rebarreled didn't even go over $1000!
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorOriginally Posted By: littledawgI think your under estimating the actual cost for a build. It will most likely cost a grand for just the barrel and smith work on a 700.
Where are you getting that number? I have NEVER paid $1000 to have a 700 rebarreled.
Shilen short chambered barrel = $450, install & finish chamber = ~$100-150.
The last 700 I sent out to get blue-printed and rebarreled didn't even go over $1000!
Yep, that seems kinda high to me too.
A good barrel blank would run around $350 and a chambering job would run around $200-$250, if you wanted to go that route.
Where are you getting that number? I have NEVER paid $1000 to have a 700 rebarreled.
Shilen short chambered barrel = $450, install & finish chamber = ~$100-150.
The last 700 I sent out to get blue-printed and rebarreled didn't even go over $1000!
Yep, that seems kinda high to me too.
A good barrel blank would run around $350 and a chambering job would run around $200-$250, if you wanted to go that route.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Quote:What I mean is having the barrel replaced with a heavier premium barrel and replace the stock as well. As you know that can reach $1000 in replacing those two items on the Remy.....I think you need to call a couple of barrel and stock makers with specific questions about your project...I would really question if you can, in fact, find a stock factory production rifle capable of your project without quite a bit of additional smith work..
I recently (two monthes ago) had Douglas Barrels rebarrel a Styer-Mauser action with a Stainless Air Gauged XX Premium Match 26" barrel that was head spaced, and trued to the action at a cost of $549 and just a basic HS Tactical stock that is aluminum block bedded will run about $500 for the Remington action...My action is mounted in an older Boyds laminated bench style stock that needs to be upgraded...An even better stock will probably be even higher...And I'm not planning on any extreme distance shooting..
The .338 is a proven long distance round with a well trained shooter and I would think that the optic you choose as well as the mounting system will be a determining factor in your degree of success....Then it will come down to your personal ability and wind reading skills...
I recently (two monthes ago) had Douglas Barrels rebarrel a Styer-Mauser action with a Stainless Air Gauged XX Premium Match 26" barrel that was head spaced, and trued to the action at a cost of $549 and just a basic HS Tactical stock that is aluminum block bedded will run about $500 for the Remington action...My action is mounted in an older Boyds laminated bench style stock that needs to be upgraded...An even better stock will probably be even higher...And I'm not planning on any extreme distance shooting..
The .338 is a proven long distance round with a well trained shooter and I would think that the optic you choose as well as the mounting system will be a determining factor in your degree of success....Then it will come down to your personal ability and wind reading skills...
tnshootist
New member
Could just try a 1000 yd rifle to see if you think a mile is necessary. 1000 yards is a long poke when you lay down to do it. Got a buddy who is bit by the mile bug. He just bought an Armalite
in 338 lapua. Those big cases hold a lot of powder.
in 338 lapua. Those big cases hold a lot of powder.
The more I read and learn about this project the more I am leaning towards the NEW Savage Target Magnum rifle chambered in the 338 Lapua. As far as the scope is concerned I am leaning towards a Leupold Long Range scope with 94 MOA of adjustment. I could even add a 20 MOA base if need be.