Red Frog I will get back to the topic at hand but to all the new and some of the old guys on here. If the only way you have to prove how good you are and how much you know is to try to discredit anyone who is not agreeing with you, you have a tough road ahead. The first statement made in dissention of vocals was, just because big Al Morris said it works doesn't make it true. I have never met Al, never talked to him, even here where he is a member, probably never will. I am however a student of coyote hunting. I know Al Morris not because of his videos or company affiliations, but because he is one of the if not the premier contest callers in the nation. He has proved over and over again that he can flat put the coyotes down. I for one would try about any suggestion he was willing to give. All the new people here would probably be well served to take the advise of people who have proved they know how to put coyotes down.