pistol build legality questions

kpkiefer

Member
About a year ago I picked up a complete lower with a carbine stock on it from palmetto state. I've never done anything with it except take it out of the box and check it out. Can I throw a pistol buffer/tube on this and build it into a pistol now without fear of the ATF kicking my door in? I think a complete lower is only marked on the ATF dealer form as "other", but I'm unsure if that changes if it has a stock on it????
 
If it is a complete lower with a stock on it, it should have been marked as a long gun on the form 4473, then it can not be made into a pistol lower.
If it was a stripped lower "no parts in it or buffer tube and marked other, it can be made into either but has to stay in the config it has been made into.
You can pick up a stripped lower for 50 bucks then make your pistol.
 
Last stripped lower I bought I was ask if it was for rifle or pistol. when I asked the FFL what difference it made he told me they were designated either rifle or pistol from the manufacturer.
 
Originally Posted By: vahunterLast stripped lower I bought I was ask if it was for rifle or pistol. when I asked the FFL what difference it made he told me they were designated either rifle or pistol from the manufacturer.

Why did he ask you what it was for then?
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If he sold you a stripped unmarked lower he should have marked paper work as other so it could be used for either.

Some are designated from factory as Pistol only and are marked as such on the lower itself. Most are not marked.

 
If it had a stock on it, then it cannot be reassembled as a pistol.

For STRIPPED LOWERS, you can assemble them as a pistol, as they have NOT BEEN DESIGNATED. It's a common misconception that the "factory designates the lower" as pistol or rifle. Stripped lowers are not designated, and are marked as "other" on the ATF Form 4473, and can be assembled as a pistol or rifle.

If your lower came as a KIT, and was not assembled, AND was marked as "Other" on the 4473, rather than as "rifle," then you're in a grey area, because technically the kit was an unassembled "other," but with rifle parts included. If they were not physically attached, AND it was sold in the initial transfer as "other," then you have a strong case that you bought a stripped lower that could legally be built into either.

But if it was purchased as a Rifle with the carbine stock attached, you CANNOT convert it to a pistol.

Originally Posted By: vahunterLast stripped lower I bought I was ask if it was for rifle or pistol. when I asked the FFL what difference it made he told me they were designated either rifle or pistol from the manufacturer. This FFL had bad information. Stripped lowers are NOT designated from the factory. It says directly on the Form 4473 that "Other" includes "frames, receivers, etc," and as such, the stripped lower should never be designated as pistol or rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorIf it had a stock on it, then it cannot be reassembled as a pistol.

For STRIPPED LOWERS, you can assemble them as a pistol, as they have NOT BEEN DESIGNATED. It's a common misconception that the "factory designates the lower" as pistol or rifle. Stripped lowers are not designated, and are marked as "other" on the ATF Form 4473, and can be assembled as a pistol or rifle.

If your lower came as a KIT, and was not assembled, AND was marked as "Other" on the 4473, rather than as "rifle," then you're in a grey area, because technically the kit was an unassembled "other," but with rifle parts included. If they were not physically attached, AND it was sold in the initial transfer as "other," then you have a strong case that you bought a stripped lower that could legally be built into either.

But if it was purchased as a Rifle with the carbine stock attached, you CANNOT convert it to a pistol.

Originally Posted By: vahunterLast stripped lower I bought I was ask if it was for rifle or pistol. when I asked the FFL what difference it made he told me they were designated either rifle or pistol from the manufacturer. This FFL had bad information. Stripped lowers are NOT designated from the factory. It says directly on the Form 4473 that "Other" includes "frames, receivers, etc," and as such, the stripped lower should never be designated as pistol or rifle.

Ah... yes they can. Like I said in my post above, some do and can be marked that way.

Here is one example:

http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/ar15-pistol-lower-receivers/
 
Now that the OP has had his thread jacked we can now go back to the OP's post and answer his question again.

If you bought a complete rifle lower with butt stock on it, it is a rifle lower, do not make it a pistol.
 
Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKERAh... yes they can. Like I said in my post above, some do and can be marked that way.

Here is one example:

http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/ar15-pistol-lower-receivers/

Technically, markings are irrelevant for the ATF's rulings. The ATF doesn't care that it's stamped "pistol" on the side - stripped receivers sell as "Other," regardless of whether it's a pistol receiver or rifle receiver, or an ambiguous AR receiver (1911 frames sell as "other" been there, done that).

Additionally, it's NOT illegal to convert a pistol lower into a rifle lower, it just cannot be converted back (arguably).

I suppose one could argue (with the ATF) that a lower that's marked "pistol" was purchased with the intent to be a pistol, so when they built it into a pistol, then rebuilt a rifle, they'd at least be able to ARGUE (again, with the ATF) that it's still a pistol lower - kinda like the on-going issues that the T/C Contender had with riding both sides of the fence, or the guys that tried to rebuild XR-100 rifles into XP100's. With an AR lower, they'll likely lose. Once it has a stock on it, it's a rifle, and can't ever be a handgun again.

So, again, it depends if this guy bought an assembled lower, or a lower kit. A stripped lower in a kit is still a stripped lower, and if the selling FFL marked it as they were supposed to as "other" on the 4473 AND he never assembled it as a rifle, then it could get built into a pistol. (Although if you didn't own a rifle, and had an AR pistol and an AR rifle stock, you technically own an SBR).

If it was an assembled lower, it can never become a pistol.
 
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760"If and individual utilizes a receiver that has never been barrled as a rifle action, he may lawfully assemble a pistol. "

Thanks. I think I'm going to doublecheck with the FFL I deal with. I'm pretty certain the 4473 on this one was filled out as "other".
 
The simple act of bolting on a rifle barreled upper being the one thing that keeps a person from making a pistol from the same lower is a really stupid thing. The ATF cant enforce it if they cannot prove it. Im not implying anything, its just a really stupid law.
 
Incomplete receivers MUST be listed as "OTHER" on a for 4733- unless state law requires otherwise- because they can be assembled as either a rifle or a pistol. It even states so on the back of the form
 
Originally Posted By: yotekiller You have to be 21 to purchase a lower regardless of its state.

What does this have to do with anything???
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Yes it is, however you can purchase an ar 15 at the age of 18 as long as it is sold and 4473'd as a long gun.
You may not purchase a receiver at
 
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