Training with out an E-collar?

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HardwickN

New member
So I have been reading for a few years now on training a dog for hunting. every one I know and have talked to uses the e-collars. so I finally have the time to invest in a good hunting dog so the wife and I got one. well the wife doesn't want to use and e-collar because she's afraid of hurting the dog. She hasn't done her side of the research. does any one know if it is possible to train a dog to be extremely obedient with out the use of the collar. I'm talking when you say come no matter where it is or what its chasing it turns on a dime and returns.

thanks
 
Buy a collar and try it on yourself so that you know what you are doing to your dog. I am a sissy when it comes to voltage and I can stand mine up to level 8............. A tiny nick on the dog I cant even feel on the palm of my hand trained my dog just fine. Make sure that you have one with a tone option and when the dog learns the collar you will never have to use the E function. My dogs respond extremely well to vibration and tone. Also a tiny nick to keep a dog out of a serious situation is a great safety net.
 
that's exactly what I told her. the one iv been looking at has shock settings from 0-127. it doesn't have the tone but has the vibration. I really don't plan on using the E function unless he's about to get him self hurt or just really not obeying my commands that he knows. she is from Florida and has seen her friends dogs get torn to shreds from hogs. we do a lot of drive hunts here in Germany where the main thing we go after his hogs. I want that safety net if he gets to close or is about to get him self into a serious situation.
 
I have used one for a few months now and it has been amazing. I tried training without one but had a hard time breaking him from a chase. I have only shocked him once with the remote up to 8 (highest) and he now knows that when the collar is on he is all mine
 
I trained field trial dogs for several years, and I do know that a dog can be trained without a collar. But the thing I'm not certain about is if they can be PERMANENTLY trained without one. In other words ..... just how much will they be obedient to the training when the heat is on? In my personal experience and interactions with a bunch of professionals, the collar not only saves time but it is actually easier on the dog because the training is more exact and gets results faster. Less time training = less wear-and-tear on the dog. YMMV.
 
I will agree with Hidalgo. I trialed for years with retrievers and trained a lot with no collars. I was much younger then and if I was wearing my "Hong Kong go Fasters" [imported sneakers] I would run out and give the dog a shake and make him sit there thinking about his transgression while I panted my way back to the 'line'.

Then one day I saw a guy with wheel barrow and I thought " That little wheel saves a lot of huffing and puffing, maybe I need an e-collar
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I used Tri-tronics for years with much success. Recently I sold my tritronics gear and went with Garmin. I'm very happy so far.

I don't field trial but I do hunt with my dogs, and I train for others. The e-collar , used properly is a great tool. Used improperly it is a big stick.

My wife felt the same about using the e-collar on a dog. She also had knew nothing about it except it shocked the dog. Listening to idiots talk about 'frying' the dog, or 'lighting him up" didn't help.

I had an old English bulldog in for training. Would not listen when it got more than ten feet away. Collar time and hearing improved 100%. I gave "Yes Dear" some instructions on it's use and in one session at the controls she was a convert.

The unit I have has variable shock settings as well as tone and vibrate. After some conditioning a tone or vibration is enough to get compliance. I like this unit much better than the tritronics, and it is about half the cost or less.

I have a 4 year old lab who gets 'deaf' once in a while. He has not had a collar of any kind on him since he was six months old except for training, and not much there. When he goes to deaf and decides he is training me, I put an e collar on him. Immediately he becomes attentive, even though I've done nothing other than putting the collar on him.

Conditioning to the collar is the key. You won't need much more than tone or vibration once that conditioning is done.
 
Thanks for the input Fellas. ya'll have literally stated the exact things I have been telling my wife. I think she has finally warmed up to the idea when she took the dog out to a nice open field to play and he wouldn't listen to a word she said. even though he listens to her in the back yard.
 
Originally Posted By: HardwickNI really don't plan on using the E function unless he's about to get him self hurt or just really not obeying my commands that he knows.

Based upon the above statement, I'll throw this out there:

If you aren't schooled about the PROPER use of a collar, I would suggest you either avoid it altogether or else seek out someone who knows how to properly use it. Many dogs have been ruined by people who have no idea what they are doing. ONE wrong correction can cost you weeks of training.

Contrary to what you just said, the collar is used to do the training. Not necessarily for correction. The command is given, the shock comes, and then disappears as soon as the dog starts to respond. But the dog has to understand what is expected of him first. You really, really need to make certain that you understand the complete process before you start a dog on a collar.
 
I don't like collars, but they are valuable in a lot of situations. In my opinion, the dog should never know that the shock is coming from you. Tone/vibrate are different, but shock should be something they fear and not have it tied back to you.

The times I have shocked or when dogs chase trash. My thought is that they should think the animal they are chasing is shocking them, not me. If they think I am shocking them, they will wait until they get out of sight or earshot and keep doing the same thing. If they think the trash is shocking them, they will avoid that animal all together.

I train 90% without a shock or tone collar. I like to let dogs figure stuff out on their own and not be tied to what I think they should do. I have been surprised so many times by a dog that looks to be going the wrong direction, only to end up leading the chase. I do think that you can speed up the training with a shock collar, but as others have said unless you know what you are doing and follow a very strict plan with it... you can really ruin a dog fast with too much shock or badly timed shock

When I have a collar on a dog, I will often take the batteries out and put them in my pocket. My thought is it will take me about 30 seconds to put the batteries in the controller and deliver the shock. That cuts down on the emotional/pissed of use of the collar when you lose your temper.
 
Originally Posted By: Norcalkyle

When I have a collar on a dog, I will often take the batteries out and put them in my pocket. My thought is it will take me about 30 seconds to put the batteries in the controller and deliver the shock. That cuts down on the emotional/pissed of use of the collar when you lose your temper.

Thats a good idea.
 
Originally Posted By: NorcalkyleI like to let dogs figure stuff out on their own and not be tied to what I think they should do. I have been surprised so many times by a dog that looks to be going the wrong direction, only to end up leading the chase.

GREAT point!
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The above statement just goes to show the differences in training depending on the intended outcome. He wants his dogs to HUNT. We wanted our field trial dogs to be more like a machine and go as straight to the bird and back as was possible.

There are tons of things to take into consideration before you ever start training and this was just an example.
 
I think a lot of it depends on the dog. If you have tons of time to spend in training I believe a collar is less needed. I have trained drug dogs and hunting dogs. The more time I spent the less attention they needed. I am now a bit older and have taken on a new project of training a squirrel dog. It will be enteresting to see if my opinion changes. Good luck.
 
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