Obama’s feds hid key data to get Calif. lead ammo ban passed

Tbone-AZ

New member
We all knew they were lying, I just get disgusted that it is now proven they are doing all they can no matter if it mean lying to push an agenda.

Obama’s feds hid key data to get Calif. lead ammo ban passed in backdoor gun control move


A pro-hunting group is up in arms after obtaining emails that it says indicate that a federal official withheld critical data on lead blood levels in the California condor until after gun control advocates in the California state legislature used the iconic bird’s plight to help push through a law last year to ban lead ammunition.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation obtained the emails as part of a Freedom of Information Act request showing that John McCamman, California condor recovery coordinator for the Fish and Wildlife Service, did not make the report public until the bill was on its way to the desk of Gov. Jerry Brown. Mr. Brown signed the measure in October 2013.

The annual update, which had been previously issued in June, found little change in the condor’s blood lead levels despite a 2007 ban on lead ammunition in the “condor zone,” a lengthy swath of habitat along the coast from Ventura County to Santa Clara County. The California state legislature acted at the urging of wildlife and animal rights advocates, led by the Humane Society, which argued that the California condor and other species were being poisoned by ingesting lead shot, fragments or contaminated prey.

Lawrence Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel, accused the Fish and Wildlife Service of deliberately sitting on the report in order to bolster the chances of passage of Assembly Bill 711, which ushered in the nation’s first statewide lead ammunition ban.

“[T]he email thread shows that they withheld that [information] from the public; they withheld it from the legislature purposely,” Mr. Keane said. “And why? Because the results show that despite the existing law and regulations that ban the use of traditional ammunition by hunters, it was not having an impact on condor blood-lead levels in California.”

Mr. Keane added, “Which suggests, as we have said all along, that condors in California are accessing lead from other sources, not ammunition.”

Gun rights groups, which have blasted the law as a backdoor effort to ban hunting, countered that the lead-poisoning claim wasn’t backed up by scientific research. About 95 percent of U.S. hunting ammunition is made of lead.

Mr. McCamman could not be reached for comment Tuesday, but Fish and Wildlife spokesman Scott Flaherty said that while the 18-page report, entitled “California Condor Recovery Program, Project Update and 2011 and 2012 Lead Exposure Report,” had been held back, “I’m pretty sure it was not delayed simply to withhold it from the debate.”

The emails between Fish and Wildlife Service personnel show that a draft of the report was ready in April 2013. The state legislature passed a final version of the bill on Sept. 10, 2013. Seven days later, Mr. McCamman sent an email to agency wildlife biologist Joseph Brandt.

“Joseph — is this ready to go? I’ve attached a summary document — the state has been avoiding getting into the middle of the legislatures business (AB711) but now that that is over, this has to be ready to go. … [Are] you comfortable?” says Mr. McCamman in an email dated Sept. 17, 2013, provided by the NSSF.

The email suggests Mr. McCamman may have been trying to avoid embroiling the Fish and Wildlife Service on either side in the political debate over lead ammunition, but Mr. Keane said that such a decision was not the bureaucrat’s call to make.

“It’s disingenuous if he were to suggest that he was somehow trying to stay out of it,” Mr. Keane said. “By withholding that information, he injected himself into it, and again, that information was relevant — highly relevant — to the debate. The public should have been allowed to take that into consideration — certainly members of the legislature, and even the governor, before signing the bill.”

Mr. Flaherty said that while he was unfamiliar with the details surrounding the report’s release, “It’s not the business of the service to influence state legislation on condor matters.”

“Our concern is strictly focused on condor conservation and condor health and the effect that lead has on condors,” Mr. Flaherty said. “It’s a scientific fact that lead poisoning is a leading cause of death in condors.” (notice how they say "A" leading cause, not The, or only, cause) How many causes could there be? They live longer than 99% of the animals in the Country with a life span of 60years and don't breed until 6, and only produce a single egg, in the wild, once every 2 years.
The top cause of death is Powerlines. The whole thing was sold as a lie.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/2/lead-ammunition-ban-passed-after-feds-withheld-key/
 
Quote:Obama’s feds hid key data to get Calif. lead ammo ban passed in backdoor gun control move

What else would you expect from the "most transparent administration in history" as claimed by this bunch? This is their standard modus operandi! They would rather climb a tree and tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

Regards,
hm
 
Don't forget that Barnes Bullets had a lot to do with this. They lied as to how inexpensive shooting non lead would be and that it would be available for all calibers. It was all filmed in the original CA DFG hearings, but has since disappeared. Interesting huh? Liars!
 
About the time that was going on in CA, there was also an attempt to ban lead ammo in AZ due to the condors here. The Center for Biological Diversity sued the Forest Service for not prohibiting lead ammo on public lands where condors were present in AZ. The condors in AZ were released in the 1990's as an experimental non-essential population under paragraph 10-J in the Endangered Species Act. This means that the birds are protected, but the habitat protections did not come with the birds. The Center for Biological Diversity lost in court. There are currently no lead bans for condors in AZ. Also, voluntary compliance from hunters using non-lead ammo or burying carcasses is over 90% where condors are present.
 
People, you need to not spread internet hearsay. Barnes testified at a hearing, and does not support a lead ban.
You can read their statement here, as well as a link to the hearing.

Barnes
 
I am glad that you shared that link ninehorses.. I have had a tough time as well as lots of others in finding it. I hope that others will watch the presentation and share their views. Back in 2007 very few bullet offerings were non lead. Barnes was quick to see this as a way to start selling more of their product. The parts that made/make "Californians" mad are the parts that he left out. Keep in mind he was talking to a panel that is about 80% non hunters. He told them what they wanted to hear. He forgot to tell the panel "not that it would make any difference" that using the lead free bullets in the same weight as lead would just about make most of the store bought rifles useless. And as to the cost comparison? He compared Premium Hunting lead bullets to his non lead, and that comparison was unfair in My opinion. How many Varmint, Rodent shooters, etc use premium big game bullets for that? Why did he not tell the panel that the average shooter uses a PSP, ballistic tip lead bullet for such chores? Then the cost would have show a Huge increase in price. So yes, Barnes "IMO" and many others offered testimony that furthered their interests. They were looking at profits, expanding production doing double shift etc in order to persuade the panel.

Maybe its just Me, but if you view his presentation and come away with any other thoughts It would be good to see them. I don't have blinders on.
 
I knew the whole thing was based on garbage.

They try and push via the AZ fish and Game department the use of Lead free..

But.. it just seems they forgot, LEAD is a natural Element. I get the idea of not using lead shot over ponds for duck hunting, but a total lead ban is just another underhanded attempt at gun control.
 
Just as a matter of interest, Barnes Bullet Company sold to same holding company that owns Remington, etc. a few years ago.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/314277-barnes-bullets-sold-holding-co.html

Not that it makes any difference to me, as I don't own a rifle that will shoot their X or XXX bullets worth a darn anyway.
frown.gif
Gave up after shooting several boxes in attempt to get decent groups.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZI knew the whole thing was based on garbage.

They try and push via the AZ fish and Game department the use of Lead free..
After the condors were released in AZ, their main cause of death was lead poisoning. The AGFD then set up a research project to determine if lead ammo was the source. Hunters drawn for AZ big game hunts in the condor zone received coupons to buy non-lead ammo for free as an incentive to use it for their hunts. Voluntary compliance by hunters to use non-lead ammo was over 90%. This program has been in place for about 10 years in AZ. The main cause of death in AZ condors continues to be lead poisoning. The big question is where is the lead coming from when over 90% of the hunters in AZ are not using lead ammo in the condor zone. According to the info in the opening post, lead levels in condors in California did not change after lead ammo was banned.

The condor project folks are saying that condors have a higher sensitivity to lead than other birds. The amount of lead it takes to kill an adult condor is about 2-3 particles the size of a grain of sand. They are still pointing their finger at lead ammo while other studies are ongoing to isolate the source of lead in the environment.
 
What they need is a map from the US Geology dept, to see where they have found pockets of lead in those area's.

But the number one cause of death is not lead.. It's a leading cause. But the first cause is powerlines.
These birds are so stupid they run into power lines and die. Doesn't that fall into Darwinism? The real interesting thing is that now the Enviornmentals want the wind mills, and the Condor lovers are loosing them to wind mills. Talk about conflicted...

If i remember correctly the condor has a Gizzard, and most birds pick up small rocks and pebbles that are there to help them digest what they eat. If they are so sensative they could be picking up rocks that have lead, they could be eating animals that have natural lead levels, and then are eaten, thus transfering the lead levels.

The idea that this comes from bullets is garbage.
There just isn't bullets lying everywhere on the dirt, and most bullets that you buy in the past 10 years, boast about their retention. Try and find a hunting bullet that says that it looses more than 10% of it's weight. That means that if I use a 180gr bullet, and it looses 10%, that means there is 162 grs intact and 18gr missing. You are telling me that a bird is finding that and eating it. lol right.
 
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