Dogs fighting

deerassassin

New member
Need some advice about my 7 month old patterdale. She loves tracking and pulling fur on a coon hide I have from last year. If another dog wants to play with it and picks it up. She wines like she's hurt even if the dog didnt touch her and then shell take the other dog. Which usually is my dads wirehairs. Id let the wirehair put Zoey in her place a couple times but she wont back down he pins her down once then its a fight. Do I just let her get her a$$ kicked or is there another way. She is not intimidated by anything except cows lol. If I put that hide up she gets along great with other dogs won't start trouble with any dog unless they wanna start trouble.
 
For me that won't cut it. I don't want to have to worry about a dog getting to a bay and trying to fight other dogs. I would put a collar on her and fry her every single time she gets dog aggressive.... and if that didn't work send her down the road.

I used to have terriers and dog aggression is one of the reasons I have moved away from them.
 
I'll try that. If i yell at her shell quit but like you said that doesn't cut it. I want to be able to enjoy the hunt not worry about my dog fighting. Thanks for your help.
 
It's been my experience that the shock collar will make it worse not better. I've even seen a bark collar start a dog fight. (barked at someone then they think the other dog bit them). Don't just take my word for it google "shock collar to stop dog fight" and see what the majority say.
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I'd go with whipping his butt so he knows you're the boss, the kill belongs to you it's not up for competition.
 
I have been running hounds since 1977 and never, not one time, ever did I see a mean or so called aggressive dog stop or get better regardless of what you try to do to fix it. You have two choices, hunt that dog by itself or get rid of it. Never hunt a mean dog with young dogs...that is a surefire way to ruin an otherwise good prospect quick.
 
Originally Posted By: msincI have been running hounds since 1977 and never, not one time, ever did I see a mean or so called aggressive dog stop or get better regardless of what you try to do to fix it. You have two choices, hunt that dog by itself or get rid of it. Never hunt a mean dog with young dogs...that is a surefire way to ruin an otherwise good prospect quick.

That's some good advice right there. ^^^^

Kinda like gun shy. I've heard stories about guys fixing it but I've never seen it done in 40+ years of handling hunting dogs.
 
Originally Posted By: RePeteOriginally Posted By: msincI have been running hounds since 1977 and never, not one time, ever did I see a mean or so called aggressive dog stop or get better regardless of what you try to do to fix it. You have two choices, hunt that dog by itself or get rid of it. Never hunt a mean dog with young dogs...that is a surefire way to ruin an otherwise good prospect quick.

That's some good advice right there. ^^^^

Kinda like gun shy. I've heard stories about guys fixing it but I've never seen it done in 40+ years of handling hunting dogs.

Yes sir, there are three things involving dogs that I have yet to see fixed...fighting, gunshy and the shy dog. Exactly as you say though, sure enough someone will come along and post those magic words we've all heard before..."simple, all ya gotta do..." and then proceed to tell us some stupid thing that like magic will fix any of the three. The simple cold hard fact is this, why waste time with a dog that isn't what you want??? Wouldn't you be better off to worry about how fast he is on track or how he locates or trees??? Instead of "when is this dog gonna stop shaking and wetting himself long enough to go hunting??" Or "why wont this dog stop fighting every other dog in the woods???" "How many more times do I have to pull him out from under the truck when I shoot the gun???" It cost just as much to feed a worthless dog as a world champion...which one would you rather feed???
 
Excellent advice. The hard part is getting rid of a dog that won't behave, hunt or runs tail at the first shot. They become pets long before we find out it they'll make a good dog. My grandpa was a ruthless culler of dogs but when he got a good one everyone in the county wanted to buy it because they knew he only hunted good dogs.

I used to be ruthless, now that I'm older, not so much.
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You are exactly right Mike. We get a pup and its our buddy before we realize its a piece of crap. Im gitting to where I cant do what I need to do as easy as I once could. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and give up on a cull. I hate to see folks that just keep on keeping on with dog that obviously dont have it.

I have a dog aggressive Cur right now that is making a great decoy dog. He thinks every coyote I kill is his. I HATE a dog that does that. Ive hunted with other folks that have dogs like that and I despise it. Whats worse is they usually aint worth a crap and did nothing to get the coyote anyway, but they are first to pile on a dead one when in reality the whole time they stood beside us on stand shaking like a leaf before the shot. I hate a cowardly dog even worse than an overly aggressive one. I will keep this one and hunt him by himself. Personally Im not wasting one more day with a dog that aint got it. They will be someone elses problem.
 
Originally Posted By: msincI have been running hounds since 1977 and never, not one time, ever did I see a mean or so called aggressive dog stop or get better regardless of what you try to do to fix it. You have two choices, hunt that dog by itself or get rid of it. Never hunt a mean dog with young dogs...that is a surefire way to ruin an otherwise good prospect quick.

+1

Mean dogs go down the road. Mean dogs turn into killer dogs, The "pack" instinct.
 
Took my lab and patt out last saturday with me for them to get some exercise and I was rabbit hunting. Got one rabbit and zoey wouldnt let molli touch it she kept raising her lip and growling kept beating her a$$ over and over she finally stopped. Took those 2 to dads and his terrier and wire hair didnt have a problem. zoey got growled a by the wire hair and she backed right down. Last wednesday had zoey out with my lab and 2 jagd crosses to run and we were rabbit hunting had no growling what so ever no lip raising nothing. All 3 times there were dead rabbits that dogs smelled all at once .so they were all up close to the dead rabbit at once. Could it just be my terrier trying to be pack leader over my lab? If I have to get rid of her its gonna be awful hard she's not just a hunting dog she's also a pet.
 
I have worked with all types of dogs (hunting, Police K9s etc..) all my life. In my many years of training dogs, I have broken several from being gun shy. The method isn't pretty, and some would down right say it is cruel, but it does work. It requires dedication. It is basically done using food, and the dog doesn't eat unless it is over gunfire (I mean not a bite). The necessity for food will out weigh the fear of gunfire, but it takes a while. I start out chaining the dog for a week or two when I feed it. It gets used to being chained and fed. I then start the gunfire with 22 shorts and work up. I consider the dog broke when he will eat without flinching, while I fire 5-8 rounds of 12ga over his head. If the dog flinches, I put the food up, and then take the dog back to the pen. I start out giving him one chance a day to eat. This training can last two-four weeks before the dog will eat under gun fire. They will get really skinny. When they start getting thin, I try to feed them twice a day, and usually put table scrapes down. I know many will say this is horrible but a gun shy dog to many hunters is useless and they usually have a short life.
 
Originally Posted By: k9jonesI have worked with all types of dogs (hunting, Police K9s etc..) all my life. In my many years of training dogs, I have broken several from being gun shy. The method isn't pretty, and some would down right say it is cruel, but it does work. It requires dedication. It is basically done using food, and the dog doesn't eat unless it is over gunfire (I mean not a bite). The necessity for food will out weigh the fear of gunfire, but it takes a while. I start out chaining the dog for a week or two when I feed it. It gets used to being chained and fed. I then start the gunfire with 22 shorts and work up. I consider the dog broke when he will eat without flinching, while I fire 5-8 rounds of 12ga over his head. If the dog flinches, I put the food up, and then take the dog back to the pen. I start out giving him one chance a day to eat. This training can last two-four weeks before the dog will eat under gun fire. They will get really skinny. When they start getting thin, I try to feed them twice a day, and usually put table scrapes down. I know many will say this is horrible but a gun shy dog to many hunters is useless and they usually have a short life.

One would think that shyness in a dog, whether it's gun or people shy, is something that they should be able to get over eventually. I have done the above, exactly as written, twice. I got to the point where I said "what do I have to lose??" with both dogs.
It didn't work, either time. One dog was people shy and the other gun shy. Both dogs literally fell away to nothing and could hardly walk before they would allow hunger to over ride shyness and eat. I thought I had them, but as soon as I fed them and tried to get back on track they would just run away and hide again. What are you gonna do??? Starve a dog the rest of his life??? The bottom line is that at 8 12 gauge shells a day for 4 weeks...that's about the cost of a new pup that aint messed up. Instead of wasting time on an idiot, why not spend it wisely on a good prospect???>
 
Originally Posted By: msincOriginally Posted By: k9jonesI have worked with all types of dogs (hunting, Police K9s etc..) all my life. In my many years of training dogs, I have broken several from being gun shy. The method isn't pretty, and some would down right say it is cruel, but it does work. It requires dedication. It is basically done using food, and the dog doesn't eat unless it is over gunfire (I mean not a bite). The necessity for food will out weigh the fear of gunfire, but it takes a while. I start out chaining the dog for a week or two when I feed it. It gets used to being chained and fed. I then start the gunfire with 22 shorts and work up. I consider the dog broke when he will eat without flinching, while I fire 5-8 rounds of 12ga over his head. If the dog flinches, I put the food up, and then take the dog back to the pen. I start out giving him one chance a day to eat. This training can last two-four weeks before the dog will eat under gun fire. They will get really skinny. When they start getting thin, I try to feed them twice a day, and usually put table scrapes down. I know many will say this is horrible but a gun shy dog to many hunters is useless and they usually have a short life.

One would think that shyness in a dog, whether it's gun or people shy, is something that they should be able to get over eventually. I have done the above, exactly as written, twice. I got to the point where I said "what do I have to lose??" with both dogs.
It didn't work, either time. One dog was people shy and the other gun shy. Both dogs literally fell away to nothing and could hardly walk before they would allow hunger to over ride shyness and eat. I thought I had them, but as soon as I fed them and tried to get back on track they would just run away and hide again. What are you gonna do??? Starve a dog the rest of his life??? The bottom line is that at 8 12 gauge shells a day for 4 weeks...that's about the cost of a new pup that aint messed up. Instead of wasting time on an idiot, why not spend it wisely on a good prospect???>


This is not training. This is animal cruelty.

I've trained tons of dogs. Some were smart and some not so much. I've also worked in law enforcement regarding animal cruelty. I'd be laying charges in these cases if I did the inspection.
 
Originally Posted By: RedfrogOriginally Posted By: msincOriginally Posted By: k9jonesI have worked with all types of dogs (hunting, Police K9s etc..) all my life. In my many years of training dogs, I have broken several from being gun shy. The method isn't pretty, and some would down right say it is cruel, but it does work. It requires dedication. It is basically done using food, and the dog doesn't eat unless it is over gunfire (I mean not a bite). The necessity for food will out weigh the fear of gunfire, but it takes a while. I start out chaining the dog for a week or two when I feed it. It gets used to being chained and fed. I then start the gunfire with 22 shorts and work up. I consider the dog broke when he will eat without flinching, while I fire 5-8 rounds of 12ga over his head. If the dog flinches, I put the food up, and then take the dog back to the pen. I start out giving him one chance a day to eat. This training can last two-four weeks before the dog will eat under gun fire. They will get really skinny. When they start getting thin, I try to feed them twice a day, and usually put table scrapes down. I know many will say this is horrible but a gun shy dog to many hunters is useless and they usually have a short life.

One would think that shyness in a dog, whether it's gun or people shy, is something that they should be able to get over eventually. I have done the above, exactly as written, twice. I got to the point where I said "what do I have to lose??" with both dogs.
It didn't work, either time. One dog was people shy and the other gun shy. Both dogs literally fell away to nothing and could hardly walk before they would allow hunger to over ride shyness and eat. I thought I had them, but as soon as I fed them and tried to get back on track they would just run away and hide again. What are you gonna do??? Starve a dog the rest of his life??? The bottom line is that at 8 12 gauge shells a day for 4 weeks...that's about the cost of a new pup that aint messed up. Instead of wasting time on an idiot, why not spend it wisely on a good prospect???>


This is not training. This is animal cruelty.

I've trained tons of dogs. Some were smart and some not so much. I've also worked in law enforcement regarding animal cruelty. I'd be laying charges in these cases if I did the inspection.



I never said it was...I never called it "training", you did...what it was is a last resort to try and save a dog from being repeatedly passed around or "jockeyed" from one owner to another and mistreated.

"I've trained tons of dogs...":

and I guess you fixed every one of them...right.

"If I did the inspection..."

If is a big word.

If the dog would have straightened up and flew right...

If you lived in the greatest country in the world you maybe could have done your "inspection"...

If there was no such thing as a statute of limitations...

Don't be too upset, the dog didn't get over it either.
 
Deer assassin, I didn't mean to highjack your thread. I just wanted to point out that with enough training most dogs can be broke of undesirable habits (fighting, gunshyness, hard mouthing a bird, barking excessively in a pen etc). I knew this method would raise questions and bring out criticism, but I have seen it work multiple times. The dogs I broke from being gunshy were good prospects and worth the time to "ME". I felt like this method was a better solution than the alternative, and they turned out to be nice dogs and live happy lives.

Note to: Misc, If my dog got down that weak, I would have suspended training and allowed it to get it's strength back. Also I didn't start out with a 12ga. I started with a 22 CB cap or 22 short, so the expense wasn't much. It usually took a week or two for them to start eating a bite or two with the 22. But once they started, they grew more confident each day that the gun fire wouldn't harm them, and eventually would eat under 12 ga fire.

Deer assisin, back to your question, To stop dog aggression in Police K9s, we would "EVERY" morning for 9 weeks, start our day with muzzled dogs. The muzzled dogs would be allowed to roam in a fenced yard and the handlers would follow them around. If your dog attacked another dog or engaged in a fight, the handler would quickly grab the dog, throw it on his back and straddle it, pinning his neck to the ground , while yelling "NO" and staring in his eyes until the dog broke eye contact. By the end of classes, I never saw a dog that looked to engage in a dog fight. I am also not saying that a very aggressive dog could be totally trusted after graduation but he sure was 100% more tolerate of other dogs after the class.

Being a good dog trainer takes dedication, patience, being very swift and quick with corrections, and giving lots of praise. He also never stops learning new techniques, and remains open minded because each dog is an individual and may require a different method of training.

Just for those that wonder. I have been actually hunting for about 45 years (50 yrs old) and trained hunting dogs most of those years. I have owned and trained rabbit, deer, coon and bear hounds, pointing bird dogs, retrievers, squirrel dogs, and I have trained/retired two police K9s in my career. I have raised at least 25 litters of pups, and owned well over 200 dogs in my life time. I clean dog pens every day and my dogs are very healthy.

They also handle very well!
 
Maybe it is just your lab she has a problem with maybe not. The problem is that she thinks the coon hide is hers when it really isn't, it's yours, not your labs or other any dogs. You can let her get her but kicked but that rarely helps, especially with terriers. In their minds they are tougher than the other dog even if they are 0-50 with the other dog. All it will get you is vet bills. By the time you break up the fight you have already lost because a problem like this needs to be stopped before the fight begins. As soon as the glint of aggression is in their eye you better have snapped them out of it otherwise it's on. When the animal is dead her job is done and she has no reason to get close enough to it to be possessive of it. When you let her claim it it is hers. You need to do exactly what she is doing only in reverse.

I would start one on one with the terrier and claiming the coon hide. Let her smell it a little then claim it. Stand over it and make her get away. If you don't want her within 50 ft. of it then don't let her get any closer than that to it. If she nips at your shoes or anything like that, grab the scruff of her neck and put her on her back. Straddle her and hold her down by her throat until she gives up. When I say give up I mean actually give up to the point of resting. No tense muscles at all. This is also not the best activity to do early in the morning or day when she is fresh off a solid eight hours. Poop her out on a long walk/run first, though she is young so don't push her joints too hard.

Once she catches on to the idea of the hide being yours, put the lab on a leash and keep her right by your side while you repeat the process of claiming the hide. The lab of course needs to be calm during this and can't really pay attention to the hide. If the lab isn't to this point then the same process needs to be done with her. Eventually I would work with both at the same time and keep them both away from the hide at a distance and attention level of your choosing. Make her give up and be calm around it so that she can actually lay down and put her head in a relaxed/restfull manner.

If there is one thing I have learned about terriers it is that you will never match their excitement or focus level. Don't even try. It is because of this that yelling and hitting really don't work and I don't think they are very productive methods in any breed. You have to be repititious with them and stop a bad behavior before it starts. Don't worry about how many times it has attacked another dog, just focus on what you are doing right now and make the good behavior the normal behavior day after day, eventually it will be just normal. Another thing I have learned is that exercise is a terriers best friend, even more so than with other breeds. Lastly, be calm and have patience. Count to ten, learn to breathe deep and in the nose out the mouth type stuff.
 
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