Positives and negatives of coyote killing.

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frank4570

New member
I'm new. And I'm an inexperienced coyote hunter.
Coyotes are moving into our area and they are hurting the game population. I've been studying what is said here. I have gear and traps. And I have an experienced local coyote hunter who has been giving me tips. I've been zeroing in on the local packs den and was just about ready to start working when I ran across some unsettling info. So, I thought I would get input from you guys.
It's been suggested that getting rid of current coyotes could result in new coyotes moving in and those coyotes could be worse. The neighboring cattle farmer said the coyotes have not been bothering his cows and conventional wisdom is that if the local coyotes are not bothering the cows, don't hunt the coyotes. Same for coyotes that are not bothering house pets, sheep and goats etc etc etc.
If I could push a button and make all of the coyotes disappear from this state I would do it without hesitation. But I can't do that. I can impact them and change them, cause them to behave differently. But I can't make them go away.
What do you guys think?
 
Kill em when you can ,they are here to stay and they're not fussy what they eat. One of my farmers lost 4 calves earlier this year. You will soon find out how fast they multiply. The Eastern coyote is becoming known as a coy wolf , combination of coyote & gray wolf. They are finding them to be smarter than their subspecies.

Just start hunting them and you will find out !

Welcome to hunting the hunter & the forum !
 
i have heard many times that if you kill them, they will multiply. while biologically it may be true that they have more litters or bigger litters when their numbers are down, but if you do not shoot any, there will be as many as the food supply will support. with livestock around, the food supply is always there.

i have heard from local ranchers about the "they don't hurt anything" theory. a bunch of crap!

there are no negatives to shooting them. it is not like you currently have a bunch of "nice" ones, and "mean" ones will move in. that is pure crap. coyotes are coyotes, they will eat whatever they can get their paws on.

and if for some reason the population goes up after you shoot a bunch, you get to shoot more!

i have been hammering the coyotes in the area where i live for many years, the deer population looks better than it has for at least 10 years. i used to see coyotes all the time out in pastures, now it is rare.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724i have heard many times that if you kill them, they will multiply. while biologically it may be true that they have more litters or bigger litters when their numbers are down, but if you do not shoot any, there will be as many as the food supply will support. with livestock around, the food supply is always there.

i have heard from local ranchers about the "they don't hurt anything" theory. a bunch of crap!

there are no negatives to shooting them. it is not like you currently have a bunch of "nice" ones, and "mean" ones will move in. that is pure crap. coyotes are coyotes, they will eat whatever they can get their paws on.

and if for some reason the population goes up after you shoot a bunch, you get to shoot more!

i have been hammering the coyotes in the area where i live for many years, the deer population looks better than it has for at least 10 years. i used to see coyotes all the time out in pastures, now it is rare.


I agree. The old "shoot them and they will increase litter size" is a canard propogated by the yote huggers. 6724 hit the nail on the head. All things being equal, you reduce the coyote population, there will be more food per coyote, so pup survival tends to increase, due to the fact that fewer are starving. The same phenomenon occurs with any other animal. Killing coyotes is also beneficial to calf survival, since there are fewer coyote to kill calves and there is not as much competition for their natural food sources. A coyote full of rabbit is a lot less inclined to go calf hunting than one that is starving due to the fact that all his cousins have wiped out the local rabbit population.
 
Originally Posted By: frank4570I'm new. And I'm an inexperienced coyote hunter.
Coyotes are moving into our area and they are hurting the game population. I've been studying what is said here. I have gear and traps. And I have an experienced local coyote hunter who has been giving me tips. I've been zeroing in on the local packs den and was just about ready to start working when I ran across some unsettling info. So, I thought I would get input from you guys.

Incase no one has ever said this to you...Welcome to Predator Masters.
It's refreshing to see someone who is new to coyote hunting, actually admit it. And IMHO, you have asked a good question.

It's been suggested that getting rid of current coyotes could result in new coyotes moving in and those coyotes could be worse.

#1) Yes, once a "local" coyote, or more is removed, others will filter into the area & take it's/their place. Nothing but business as usual, for any species.
#2) The new coyote won't be any more/less better or worse than what's already there. There is no such thing as a "good" coyote, or a "bad" coyote.

The neighboring cattle farmer said the coyotes have not been bothering his cows and conventional wisdom is that if the local coyotes are not bothering the cows, don't hunt the coyotes. Same for coyotes that are not bothering house pets, sheep and goats etc etc etc.


"Conventional wisdom"...hmmm. While coyotes can show signs of "intelligence", you can not infuse them with the same guidelines as a human has.
Just because coyotes are not currently attacking livestock or pets, certainly doesn't mean that they won't or can't in the future.
It's not Winter yet. So, food sources are still plentiful.
Let there be a long stretch of cold temps & snow. Once that happens, pets will become possible meals. And if there are newborn calves during the Winter, you can bet that coyotes will be trying to get at the placenta, AND the calf.

If I could push a button and make all of the coyotes disappear from this state I would do it without hesitation. But I can't do that. I can impact them and change them, cause them to behave differently. But I can't make them go away.
What do you guys think?

"Impact & change them".....Take this for what you feel it's worth: After 40+ years of hunting coyotes, and growing up on a cattle/horse farm, I can tell you that now the coyotes are in your area, you won't be able to do either.


 
Originally Posted By: canislatrans54

#1) Yes, once a "local" coyote, or more is removed, others will filter into the area & take it's/their place. Nothing but business as usual, for any species.
#2) The new coyote won't be any more/less better or worse than what's already there. There is no such thing as a "good" coyote, or a "bad" coyote.



have to disagree with this. i hunt several places where the coyotes never bother livestock, pets or anything. the ranchers dont mind these coyotes on their place. these would be "good" coyotes. these coyotes dont hurt a thing being on the place and are really a benifit to the rancher.

i hunt other ranches where the coyotes do bother livestock and have killed some pets. ranchers dont like these coyotes and want them gone. these would be "bad" coyotes.

if you kill the coyotes that dont bother anything off one place, some "bad" coyotes "might" move in. seen it happen many times.

all coyotes are not out of the same mold.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: canislatrans54

#1) Yes, once a "local" coyote, or more is removed, others will filter into the area & take it's/their place. Nothing but business as usual, for any species.
#2) The new coyote won't be any more/less better or worse than what's already there. There is no such thing as a "good" coyote, or a "bad" coyote.





have to disagree with this. i hunt several places where the coyotes never bother livestock, pets or anything. the ranchers dont mind these coyotes on their place. these would be "good" coyotes. these coyotes dont hurt a thing being on the place and are really a benifit to the rancher.

i hunt other ranches where the coyotes do bother livestock and have killed some pets. ranchers dont like these coyotes and want them gone. these would be "bad" coyotes.

if you kill the coyotes that dont bother anything off one place, some "bad" coyotes "might" move in. seen it happen many times.

all coyotes are not out of the same mold.



Well, crap.
 
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It's just nature doing what nature does. Any of us that comes from ranching backgrounds know there are no good or bad coyotes, they're all opportunists and will take a calf if given the right circumstances.. They do seem to adapt and learn, if they've been successful in taking larger prey as a group they will continue when those opportunities arise. I have a few areas that you can call in the whole group with fawn distress and singles or mated pairs on rabbit. I have other areas where you can play fawn distress to a visible coyote that is mousing and it will pay no attention to the call.
 
If you kill these "good" coyotes, maybe the replacement coyotes that move in will pay rent. Those would be "better" coyotes. Maybe, maybe, maybe, .........


Chupa
 
I don't think "good" or "bad" coyotes has anything to do with it. If there is plenty of mice rabbits gophers ect. They won't have to resort to killing livestock and pets. But if there isn't all bets are off. Even when food is plentiful if a coyote comes across fluffy odds are it's going to attempt to make It a meal. Coyotes don't know or care who the cats or dog belong to.
 
My residential coyotes are always complaining about the neighboring coyotes... They drop in at all hours of the night... Raid the refrigerator... Never flush the toilets... Said they borrowed the lawn mower last spring and refuse to bring it back...

Oh yeah, they also suspect they are stealing their newspapers...
 
In my opinion, it is not a coyote's nature "To be good". I had a farmer refuse hunting permission based on his conclusion that his coyotes were "Good" and not bothering anything. He was afraid that "Bad" coyotes would replace his "Good" coyotes. Problem is they were killing calves, fawns, and rabbits on his neighbor's land. When the going got tough on his neighbor's land, they started killing everything in reach on his land. Now I hunt his land regularly.
 
Thanks for the input everybody.
I still want to move forward trying to get ahead of the coyotes moving into this area. And I think it will be the right thing to do in the long run. I don't know if I can convince the farmer it the best way to go, and I have no interest in getting on the bad side of local cattle ranchers even if they are wrong. So I will have to think about this a little. There is generally no need for me to advertise what I am doing, unless I am trying to hunt coyotes on their land.
Decisions.
 
I haven't talked to anyone around here who doesn't lose at least some calves to coyotes. The birthing is the dangerous time, when momma is too weak to fend them off and the calves are helpless. They'll run in and kill a calf and wait for momma to leave to go eat it. A guy I've done some haying for runs about 200 head, and he loses some every year. No matter how many are killed, they still get some. I can't imagine how bad it would be if trappers, hunters, and cars weren't killing them. I don't know of anyone around here who would even think of passing up a shot on a coyote, be he a predator hunter, a pheasant hunter, or a farmer on a tractor.
 
When I had cattle I had never lost a calf to a coyote and had plenty of coyotes around. I thought live and let live my Jenny did her job. I sold the cows and bought sheep for my daughter to raise and show in FFA and as I have previously posted lost 7 lambs in a week. Well my attitude adjusted quickly I think the calves were to big of a target for them with the momma cows and the jenny however the sheep were smaller and easier for them. Guess what I am getting at is they are opportunist and if it becomes easier for them to take livestock than find other prey then guess what will be on the menu. Just because they have not yet does not mean they wont it just means they don't have a need to yet.
 
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