Shotgun stock "cast"

M

mutthunter

New member
I'm finally going to cough up the cash for nicer shotgun. Being a HUGE CZ fan I'd been eyeing the Redhead Delux. Seems like good quality for the price(now that they fixed a couple issues the earlier ones had). The problem is that I'm a south paw. CZ claims that the Redhead comes with a right handed "cast off" stock(or "cast on", can't remember), which supposedly will make it tough for a lefty to shoot well. My thoughts are that after over 30years of shooting only right-handed guns, could it really make that much difference? Is it something that can be overcome by practice? Or should I keep looking, the newer Ruger Red Labels have my eye as well, but are quite a bit more spendy... and not CZs.
 
To start with, there are MUCH better options for the money than the CZ. Some will disagree, but that's an opinion coming from someone with some experience with CZ shotgun owners. Their shotguns are a FAR different animal than their rifles.

As for the cast, it makes a TON of difference. A lefty must have in the very least a neutral cast gun. Remember that you don't aim a shotgun, you point it. Your head is basically the rear sight. If your head is off to one side or the other, you won't shoot where you're looking. Cast ON is extremely rare anymore. That is when the butt of the gun is actually directed back towards your chest. Cast OFF is when the butt is directed slightly away from the shooter allowing the eye to get in line with the barrel.

Save yourself a lot of problems and forget ANY gun that doesn't have a neutral cast stock. And FWIW, there are guns out there that can be shimmed to fit the shooter. I would much rather see you get a nice used Beretta or Citori that fits rather than a gun that doesn't. While you can get away with a rifle that doesn't exactly fit, an ill-fitting shotgun is never going to be accurate. Check out your local classifieds or local gun shows. These guns are out there if you are patient and do some looking.

EDIT: My son is a lefty and shoots competitive skeet, so I've been through this situation. Several times. With several guns.
wink.gif
 
My father was left handed and learned to do a lot of things with right handed tools, even right handed bolt-actions, so I guess you could learn.

That said I think you would find it easier to use a neutral-cast stock than one cast for a right handed person. You could also talk to some of the stock makers that also do stock bending and see if the CZ is a candidate for changing the cast on.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSMy father was left handed and learned to do a lot of things with right handed tools, even right handed bolt-actions, so I guess you could learn.



It's not a factor of "learning". If the cast is wrong the gun can't be pointed correctly.
 
I'm left handed and have shot and owned loads of right handed guns. A stock cast for a right hander will NOT fit you with all the practice in the world. Don't do it.
 
I just went into the back room and pulled out a French Robust shotgun with about 1/4" right cast and a German Drilling with about 3/8" right cast and threw them up left handed and see no reason why I couldn't hit birds with them. Is it ideal? NO. Would it work? Yes. It is just a matter of getting your head in the right position so your dominant eye is looking straight down the barrel.

Would I buy a new gun that is cast wrong? NO, it just makes things that much harder to shoot.

I like old shotguns and shoot a number of them and they have widely differing stock dimensions mostly in drop, pitch, cast, plus a lot of other differences raised ribs, sunken ribs, no ribs, single trigger, double trigger , pistol grip, POW grip, straight grip, hammers and hammerless but I can break birds or kill critters with all of them. My biggest nemesis on a shotgun is a Greener side or left side safety, need to constantly think about them if I hunt with one.

If I were a lefty looking for a new shotgun and I can shoot a neutral stock gun well already I'd look for the same before I'd buy a shotgun that is cast wrong.
 
Last edited:
The problem I've experienced when using shotguns cast for righties is not only the unnatural mount-but recoil. Part of the reason for the cast is to divert some of the recoil off the shooters face. It has the opposite effect when used opposite handed.-Go shoot a round of trap of skeet and you'll see what I mean-I've done it.
 
Last edited:
Hildago is spot on with his assessment of a CZ, I have a CZ Bobwhite for shooting steel out on the salt marshes and it does that well. I'd never call it an upgrade to a nicer shotgun. I'd look at a used Berretta before a CZ. I sold my hunting partner a Berretta in like new condition about 6 yrs ago and he hunts them hard, I re-finished the stock for the third time (finish was worn to the wood after having it done by the local GS), he's on his second blue job and this winter we have to have a couple of dents taken out of the rib but the gun has never missed a beat.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSI just went into the back room and pulled out a French Robust shotgun with about 1/4" right cast and a German Drilling with about 3/8" right cast and threw them up left handed and see no reason why I couldn't hit birds with them. Is it ideal? NO. Would it work? Yes. It is just a matter of getting your head in the right position so your dominant eye is looking straight down the barrel.



Just because you CAN doesn't make it correct. I'm certain that we all have done similar things over the years. And I won't sell a gun that has romantic value because it doesn't fit. But I won't take a gun that is ill-fitting into the field, either. Getting a gun to fit is much easier than it was in the past.

A stock with the wrong cast is like moving the rear sight on your rifle an inch to one side or the other. And you can imagine the ramifications of that.

I was ignorant to shotgun fitting when my son started getting interested in skeet competition. He got to a point where he was shooting 23/25, but no matter how hard we practiced that was as good as he could do. Needless to say, he was getting frustrated. Thankfully, I sought help from a professional and the first thing he did was check the stock fit. He laughed, went into his safe, and brought out a Beretta with a LOP adjustment and an adjustable comb. He spent 15 minutes fitting the gun to him, and then my son walked out to a field and shot 97/100 with a gun he had never shot before. So I have personally seen what gun fitting is all about when it comes to shotguns.
 
Your answer is right here.... Quote:As for the cast, it makes a TON of difference. A lefty must have in the very least a neutral cast gun. Remember that you don't aim a shotgun, you point it. Your head is basically the rear sight. If your head is off to one side or the other, you won't shoot where you're looking. Cast ON is extremely rare anymore. That is when the butt of the gun is actually directed back towards your chest. Cast OFF is when the butt is directed slightly away from the shooter allowing the eye to get in line with the barrel....Your best option is to find a shotgun smith that is also a competition shooter and have them assist you with a shotgun that really fits you...

I've shot sporting clays with the cheapo $300 Stoeger Condor to the $3000+ Gueini that was selected off the rack by the company representative to fit me the best and there is a world of difference...Of course, the company was trying to sell me the Guerini...Well out of my price range but it was a pleasure to shoot...
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotdumb question time. how do you tell if the cast is right for you?

The easiest way is to shoot from a standing (field) position to a pattern board and see where the center of your horizontal pattern is in relation to your pointing point. The stock should be bent accordingly.

Rule of thumb: Most anyone can shoot a neutral stock. In the real world, 50% of shooters actually shoot better with neutral cast. It depends on your cheek weld and the manner in which you shoulder the gun. A trained fitter can tell immediately what you need. The problem is finding a fitter who actually knows what they are doing. There are are some shooters out there who claim to be fitters. But finding one who actually knows what they are doing is another thing. I would suggest to anyone who really wants to be fitted that they find someone with a good reputation and seek them out. My son has been fitted twice due to him still growing, and we drove 2 hours the last time in order to get to the guy we wanted to see. It's a small price to pay when you consider that it will go with you for the rest of your shooting life.

And if you really want to get the most out of it, you need to consider the comb height as well. That can cause inconsistent vertical misses as well as left/right problems.

It's a little "over the top" for a hunting shotgun, but here's what a fitted clays gun sometimes ends up looking like:

 
Last edited:
interesting. been hunting with shotguns forever but cast when talking shotguns was a new word for me. after some google search and you explanations i get it now. mine shoot where i point them so i will leave well enough alone. straight edge off reciever onto stock shows nuetral cast
(or real close) on them.
smile.gif
thanks
 
IMO there are better choices than the CZ in the same price range. A used Browning or Beretta, for example, are vastly better guns even if used.

Fit is very important in a shotgun because everything must be done without concious thought.

I have a Browning 625 Superlight grade 4 in 20 ga and I bought it because it was the best fitting shotgun I had ever felt coming straight off a rack. Without taking it for a fitting, I went out and shot the first 3 pheasants I flushed with 3 shots. Yep, it's a keeper allright.

Grouse
 
I'm a lefty and for around $1000 you can get a Win. 101, new Ruger Red Label, used Browning all with neutral cast, most all European guns will have cast. The CZ are made in Turkey and aren't bad guns but their over priced for what you get. There are other Turkish guns for half the price of similar quality. The CZ's are heavier compared to most other Turkish guns which is ok for target but not if walking a field all day and they are heavier then the advertise. I have a Browning that I love to hunt with but when I'm headed into the thick stuff I carry my 5.5 pound Turk from Academy Sports. The gamble with inexpensive double's is barrel regulation, if one of the barrels isn't lined up properly when it's soldered your screwed. The older Franchi's were neutral but the new ones have cast. If you like the CZ get it I just think there a little over priced. If you really want to move up do what I did, saved my pennies for two years and bought a like new Browning. When you buy them used many have never been hunted due to fear of dinging that pretty wood.
 
Thanx for all the input guys. Or no thanx, I really wanted another CZ! After reading your input, and a long walk in the brush yesterday with my current beat down club 870, it occurred to me that a nicely finished o/u might not be the best way to spend my money. My hunting partner pointed out that all my gear gets pounded hard and seldom cleaned nor cared for. Thus, he suggested upgrading to a semi-auto with a synthetic stock would be better option. The Berretta A300 was his idea, as his brother loves his. I just did a little searching and it seems like it's at least worth a look. I like the price-tag, that it's lefty friendlyish, US made, and no matter how hard I flog it, it couldn't possibly get any uglier! It may not be much for a trap gun, but it's a field gun first and a clay gun second anyway(and rarely). It seems like he may be on to something. Any thoughts? (and don't suggest the 400, it sounds nice, but my pockets aren't quite that deep for a scatter gun;))
 
Last edited:
Seldom cleaned nor cared for? You DEFINITELY don't want a O/U then!

I agree with the concept of synthetic. I have a few "presentation grade" guns, but they are relegated to the skeet fields and I wouldn't dare take them in the woods. And they're all far too heavy to carry around anyway.

I look at a hunting gun as a tool. They are made to be used. I have guns to "fondle" ... but my hunting guns are not in that class.

The Beretta 300 Series are all good guns. I had a Beretta A303 that I foolishly traded off and I wish I had it back!
 
Beretta 30X series are some of the best gas-operated autoloaders out there. I have a 303 20 ga and, in fact, just yesterday I had it out to shoot clays and my father remarked that it has so little recoil that you cannot really say it has any. They are a fantastic design.

However. You need to pick up the pace on the cleaning habits if you want to own ANY autoloader. Now I'm not talking about after every outing, but once a year ALL autos need to be taken down and cleaned. Otherwise it WILL catch up with you.

And before some amateur comes on and says just buy a recoil operated auto and it'll be "more reliable" I'm calling BS. I've seen them ALL fail due to lack of maintainance. Benelli, Beretta, Remington, Winchester, Browning, all of them. They all like a different routine, but they ALL need to be kept clean.

Grouse
 
Originally Posted By: The Famous Grouse

And before some amateur comes on and says just buy a recoil operated auto and it'll be "more reliable" I'm calling BS. I've seen them ALL fail due to lack of maintainance. Benelli, Beretta, Remington, Winchester, Browning, all of them. They all like a different routine, but they ALL need to be kept clean.

Grouse


What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thumbup1.gif
 
mutthunter, if you want a hunting shotgun get a semi-auto or even a pump shotgun. It is hard to kill three birds or three coyotes with a shotgun that only shoots two shots.LOL

I have a Browning Citori Ultra XS Sporting Clays gun that I really like for shooting Sporting Clays, Trap and Skeet. But when I go hunting I use a Beretta 391L, a Remington 11-87 or a Remington 870.

There is no way I am giving up that extra shell to shoot. Plus with a O/U you have to open it up to where it can't be shot to put one or two shells in it.

I don't know how many times I have killed birds or coyotes on my third shot because I didn't lead the bird or coyote far enough on my first two shots.

Your chances of killing two birds or two coyotes with 3 shots are much better than getting the job done with two shots.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top