243 reloading difference in IMR4350 & H 4350?

O

O.B. Wallace

New member
In 7th edition Hornady manual it lists H 4350 for #2453 BTSP for a 243....my question is, can you use IMR 4350 for same loading data? Are the 2 powders similar/same? Cannot find H 4350 and have an ample supply of IMR 4350. Ackleyman has a post on here listed under "243 for Northern Whitetails" listing the 100gr Hornady BTSP, 42.3 gr of H4350 and 2muchgun lists 42.3 gr of IMR 4350 for the Sierra 100g BT...same gr. for both weight bullets. Realize these are over max loads for this round that they have listed for their gun...I will be working up my own loads to be on safe side...so, will the data #'s for H 4350 listed in the manual work for IMR 4350...seems they would but need some expert opinions?
 
They are similar but not exactly the same.. As a basic rule the IMR line burns slightly faster then the Hodgdon line. But with lot to lot variations they remain quite similar. I would take your min starting load for h-4350 and back off 5% and work back up. You'll likley find a good node with a 100 gr pill somewhere between 39-42 grs of either 4350 powders , using standard LR primers.
 
Originally Posted By: shipplyThey are similar but not exactly the same..

Correct. And any assumptions about the interchangeability can get you hurt. Reb8600 gave you good advice. Go by the book when developing loads.
 
Thanks Reb8600, just found that on Hodgdonreloading..exactly what was looking for. Looking forward to loading this round for whitetails...have heard some good reports of guys using it.
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: shipplyThey are similar but not exactly the same..

Correct. And any assumptions about the interchangeability can get you hurt. Reb8600 gave you good advice. Go by the book when developing loads.

Yep and if you look at the data and back off 5% , where did I give any other indication of not loading safely ? Similar but not the same to hard to comprehend ?
 
Originally Posted By: NorTex250And we have more feelings hurt...

That's way better than Mr. Wallace having more than his feelings hurt over a vague reloading recommendation.

Originally Posted By: shipplyOriginally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: shipplyThey are similar but not exactly the same..

Correct. And any assumptions about the interchangeability can get you hurt. Reb8600 gave you good advice. Go by the book when developing loads.

Yep and if you look at the data and back off 5% , where did I give any other indication of not loading safely ? Similar but not the same to hard to comprehend ?

[beeep] no ... I can comprehend you completely. What I comprehended was the fact that you gave very bad advice to someone about reloading. You never, ever give out a general recommendation like that if you want to be responsible. So if the next time he has a question about 2 powders with similar names should he just back down 5%? That is what you may be unknowingly teaching. Either the data is 100% interchangeable or it isn't. The best advice was given when he was directed to firm data that was also free and had no generalizations involved. You have no idea who the inquiring party is. You have no idea of their reloading background. You have no idea if they can recognize pressure signs. Giving them "ballpark" data to work with isn't very responsible on your part.

Comprehend that?


.
 
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Shipply,the Hodgdonreloading.com site gives H4350 starting load 37.0 and max of 40.0 and for IMR4350 starting 38.5 and max of 42.0. With that being said, I think it is safe to begin with 38.0 of IMR4350....this is exactly what I do in building any loads. And your reasoning of them being similar is spot on and nothing else....similar but not the same. That can be said of many powders and exactly why we on here are constantly asking for advice and seeking expert advice...and will in most cases the advise will be accurate and safe to use...then once get this advise it is up to those seeking to apply it in a manner where he feels confident that what he is about to do will give good results and not blow your head off. Never has the book figures let me down yet and my firearms are strong enough to take the pressures the books are giving, but I must do my part to stay within the pressures and always watch out if approaching max loads Thanks for your comments.
 
Hidalgo, if one comes on here expecting to find good advice and cannot determine if that advice is accurate and don't know the difference of exactly the same and similar, but not the same...he has no business with messing with powders and bullets in the first place...he should buy his ammo off the shelf and when he has gained a workable knowledge of what he is about to undertake, then maby take up reloading. I see your point of telling someone that these powders are similar and someone thinking that "oh, yea they are almost the same so I will load by the numbers that should work because they are ABOUT the same"...but like others have been saying for years on here and many other reloading sites....if you are about to undertake this hobby you better read some books, manuals, seek advice, know your firearms inside out, have pulled a few triggers before, maby shot store bought ammo and are not satisfied with what you are shooting..so I believe I will start reloading...well, if you are you better not take it lightly and understand that this is dangerous if all rules are not followed to the tee. Just like driving a car, these kids get behind the wheel at 15-16 yrs. and some of them are dead before they get started...why?..because they did not take the advice of the instructors, read some manuals, seek some good advice, and my car is capable of going real fast and I can handle it, impress my peers with my new wheels, etc. Other words, like anything else in life they jumped into it before they were prepared and that is exactly what gets all of us in trouble to begin with...you have to start slow and proceed with caution in anything you do...including this. Thanks for the comments.
 
You're preaching to the choir.

In this (and other) internet rooms, there is no room for "general" reloading data. None. Even if the person the comments are directed towards understands how to deal with the data, that doesn't stop someone else from misunderstanding and misusing the generalization. We have to be clear. Like I said above, there should never be information given that isn't directly from a published load database. That keeps everyone safe. I've read posts from the uneducated that would make your hair stand up. (Like, can I use a rifle primer in a pistol reload?) I refuse to give those folks any more fuel for their foolishness.

My thoughts of being a "beginning reloader" weren't directed at you personally, and I hope you didn't take it as such. But like I said ... who knows who is reading and then attempting to apply what they "thought" they read?
 
OB Wallace , glad you got the info you were looking for. The 243 is one of my favorite to reload for..
As for unverifiable loads ? Well there are whole web sites based on and dedicated to them, if some can't sort the wheat from the chaff maybe a new hobby is in order.
 
Shipply, well spoken and in the meantime we will have to put up with the chaff and try to help them when we can and hope they don't make a mistake with their new found hobby. The 6mm is probably the most accurate round out there and if one puts it where it is suppose to go there is no whitetail alive it won't bring down and, on other side, load it down to 58 to 60 gr. and no small critter will see tomorrow either. Name me another round that will do that any better than the 243-6mm- and we could start a real good argument. Thanks shipply.
 
Originally Posted By: shipplyThey are similar but not exactly the same.. As a basic rule the IMR line burns slightly faster then the Hodgdon line. But with lot to lot variations they remain quite similar. I would take your min starting load for h-4350 and back off 5% and work back up. You'll likley find a good node with a 100 gr pill somewhere between 39-42 grs of either 4350 powders , using standard LR primers.


I personally see nothing wrong with this suggestion. If you take H4350 MINIMUM load data and reduce 5% you would be quite safe with IMR 4350... but thats just me.

As all should do cross check as many references as possible but even the powder manufacturer's suggest using data from known burn rate powders on occasion when a new product that reloading data is not yet available.
Case in point when AR Comp came out I was told use Reloder 15 minimum data and work up. I did the same when CFE223 came out using BLC-2 minimum and work up.

I do appreciate the fact that all could disagree without anyone getting too riled up.
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Originally Posted By: venatic
I do appreciate the fact that all could disagree without anyone getting too riled up.
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I'm too dang old to get riled up about something that isn't going to do me any harm.
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You don't want to see a gorilla get riled up anyway ......
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Live out in country 25 miles south of Raleigh..haven't been to Chattanooga Tenn. Taking a bus tour to Kentucky in Oct. When you go over those mountains you are in some beautiful country...looking forward to it. Got some good hunting out in Kentucky.
 
Originally Posted By: O.B. WallaceHidalgo, if one comes on here expecting to find good advice and cannot determine if that advice is accurate and don't know the difference of exactly the same and similar, but not the same...he has no business with messing with powders and bullets in the first place...he should buy his ammo off the shelf and when he has gained a workable knowledge of what he is about to undertake, then maby take up reloading. I see your point of telling someone that these powders are similar and someone thinking that "oh, yea they are almost the same so I will load by the numbers that should work because they are ABOUT the same"...

I will have to disagree with you on this. There are lots of people just learning to reload and the information they are given should be clear enough for them to understand. The fact they may not understand does not mean they should only buy factory ammo. If someone asks for information we should help them and make sure they understand it to prevent any injuries.
 
See your point reb8600...we all at one point in our attempt to put a bullet where we want it to go had to seek, ask, search, attempt, read, and many other thoughts to try to put together a better way of sending a bullet on its way...even I had to do that many yrs. ago. But you know, I did not have the wealth of knowledge that is out there now and it is amazing I did not blow my head off. The guys we can help alone the way now should be done in an honest and precise way when giving advice on reloading and sometimes I think we forget that they are in the same situation we were in when we were getting started. Thanks for reminding me of that.
 
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