Flat base or boattail?

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
As strange as it may seem, I have had better accuracy at 100-200 yards with flat based bullets than I have had with boattailed bullets. Are any of you guys seeing any accuracy differences between these two designs?

Of course, it could have been the loads I was using and I just never found the magic mix of bullet and powder.
 
My 6X45 shoots best with 80 grain Berger Flat Base bullets. The 80 grain boat tail bullets I use are ok but the flat based ones definitely shoot the best for me so far.
 
The Shedhunter nailed it... years ago Rick Jamison did a study on exactly that topic: flat based bullets vice boattails. IIRC, his determination was that accuracy was virtually the same until the range exceeded 400 yards, at which time the boattails held a "slight" edge.

If memory serves, the article was in Shooting Times. It might be available on the 'net; I just don't know.
 
Originally Posted By: DoublessThe Shedhunter nailed it... years ago Rick Jamison did a study on exactly that topic: flat based bullets vice boattails. IIRC, his determination was that accuracy was virtually the same until the range exceeded 400 yards, at which time the boattails held a "slight" edge.

If memory serves, the article was in Shooting Times. It might be available on the 'net; I just don't know.

His "study" has nothing to do with everyday experiences. The question was: Can anyone see a difference from 100-200 yards. I know about the "statistics" and the "studies" and the "experts". I wanted to know if anyone here had experienced any differences.
 
Generally speaking, the 52 grain Sierra HPBT has shot better in all of my .224 bore guns than any flat base bullets. A small amount yes, but a difference. The same can be said of the Nosler 52 grain HPBT. Both shoot great in everything I have tried.

This is not saying that it is my favorite bullet because it is pretty iffy on critters the size of prairie dogs. Get lots of runners (draggers?) due to the fact the bullet is made for punching paper not meat. But accurate? You betcha. Shot my first all in one caliber hole with those Sierras. I always have some on my shelf.
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoAs strange as it may seem, I have had better accuracy at 100-200 yards with flat based bullets than I have had with boattailed bullets. Are any of you guys seeing any accuracy differences between these two designs?

Of course, it could have been the loads I was using and I just never found the magic mix of bullet and powder.


Virtually all short range (100-300 yards) benchrest bullets are flat based.

At long range, the only difference is slightly less drop of boat tails because of higher BC. They are chosen for long range matches because of less wind drift.

.
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: DoublessThe Shedhunter nailed it... years ago Rick Jamison did a study on exactly that topic: flat based bullets vice boattails. IIRC, his determination was that accuracy was virtually the same until the range exceeded 400 yards, at which time the boattails held a "slight" edge.

If memory serves, the article was in Shooting Times. It might be available on the 'net; I just don't know.

His "study" has nothing to do with everyday experiences. The question was: Can anyone see a difference from 100-200 yards. I know about the "statistics" and the "studies" and the "experts". I wanted to know if anyone here had experienced any differences.

So: Shedhunter's "every day" experiences mimic what Jamison's study determined, but the "study has nothing to do with everyday experience"? Well, excuse the heck out of me for not understanding that statement!

It occurs to me that any differences are going to be functions of one or more of several variables, among them firearm quality, shooter skill, and repeatability of conditions, just to name a few. Any of those will serve to cast variability into "every day experiences".

Sorry I intruded...
 
Originally Posted By: Doubless
It occurs to me that any differences are going to be functions of one or more of several variables, among them firearm quality, shooter skill, and repeatability of conditions, just to name a few. Any of those will serve to cast variability into "every day experiences".

Sorry I intruded...

You didn't intrude.

There are books upon books about everything you can think of. Shooting, reloading, hunting, etc. I know what they SAY. But I was asking for experience on ranges of 100-200 yards. I'm very well aware of the advantages at long range, and that's what most of these writings and studies are targeting.

Sorry if I came off sounding snotty. My bad.
 
It's all good. No offense taken, I just didn't understand exactly where you were going...

FWIW, I first started with flat based bullets in my 7RM, and then graduated to the Nosler 162 solid base boattails. Both loads, the 160-grain Hornadys and the Noslers, will shoot to one ragged hole at 100 when I do my part. FWIW, I have never stretched that load to see what it does beyond a hundred.

And before they got so expensive, I used to use Sierra SBTs to work up loads in my .270 BDL and then substitute the flat based Speer GS in the actual loads, because I didn't like the thin jackets on Sierras. I never found enough difference in accuracy to be concerned with it: it seemed that if the Sierras cut holes the flat based Grand Slams did as well.

Maybe if this TX heat breaks a bit I will take the 6 X 45 AR, shoot 75-grain projectiles of both configurations @ 200 and see what they tell me. That little round is so accurate it is spooky!
 
Thanks for the info! For some reason, 2 of my ARs shoot flat base bullets considerably better than boattails. Same powder and same bullet weights. Like I said, maybe I need to make a powder change or adjust the charge a bit more.
 
Some of the most consistently accurate bullets I shoot across a spectrum of rifles are FB now that I think about it. In the .22 caliber the 52gr/60gr Berger along with the 55gr Hornady which may be the most underrated bullet on the market. In 6mm the 68gr and 80gr Berger FB are two that if your gun won't shoot them then you have a gun problem.
I do get lots of Boat tails that shoot fine too so being Flat based does not dictate choice but if I am shooting for groups to see what a gun will do I tend to lean in that direction.
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoAs strange as it may seem, I have had better accuracy at 100-200 yards with flat based bullets than I have had with boattailed bullets. Are any of you guys seeing any accuracy differences between these two designs?

Of course, it could have been the loads I was using and I just never found the magic mix of bullet and powder.

Hidalgo,

the best groups I have consistently shot at 100 yds with my 223 have been with flat based 50 and 55 grain bullets from sierra, the soft point blitz family, and the hornady SXSP ones.

I have tried tried several of the boat tail plastic tipped ones

maybe I never found the right combo of stuff for the boat tails either...
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoAs strange as it may seem, I have had better accuracy at 100-200 yards with flat based bullets than I have had with boattailed bullets. Are any of you guys seeing any accuracy differences between these two designs?

Of course, it could have been the loads I was using and I just never found the magic mix of bullet and powder.



Well...... I find good accuracy with both at closer range. They both are accurate. Ends up at what your rifle likes the most.

I'm working on a 6x47L now that will not shoot a flat base bullet well. At least not any fb that I have tried but it does shoot the Sierra 80gr blitz bt very well. Going to work up some Hornady 105 A-max loads for it as well.

Just a question. How can a boat tail bullet be less accurate at short range but more accurate at long range? I would venture to say that not one 1000yd bench rest shooter runs flat base bullets. They are all boat tail. So how does a bullet get more accurate beyond 200yds if it wasn't already accurate at 1 to 200yds?

At the yards your talking I think it comes down to what your rifle likes.

Ever try the 53gr V-max in your AR? That's a good and accurate bullet with boat tail.
 
"Just a question. How can a boat tail bullet be less accurate at short range but more accurate at long range? I would venture to say that not one 1000yd bench rest shooter runs flat base bullets. They are all boat tail. So how does a bullet get more accurate beyond 200yds if it wasn't already accurate at 1 to 200yds?"

It doesn't get more accurate. It is just deflected less by wind.

Jack
 
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts"Just a question. How can a boat tail bullet be less accurate at short range but more accurate at long range? I would venture to say that not one 1000yd bench rest shooter runs flat base bullets. They are all boat tail. So how does a bullet get more accurate beyond 200yds if it wasn't already accurate at 1 to 200yds?"

It doesn't get more accurate. It is just deflected less by wind.

Jack




That's my point, Jack.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokeless

Just a question. How can a boat tail bullet be less accurate at short range but more accurate at long range? I would venture to say that not one 1000yd bench rest shooter runs flat base bullets. They are all boat tail. So how does a bullet get more accurate beyond 200yds if it wasn't already accurate at 1 to 200yds?

At the yards your talking I think it comes down to what your rifle likes.

Ever try the 53gr V-max in your AR? That's a good and accurate bullet with boat tail.

If you're addressing that to me ... I didn't say boattail bullets were more accurate at longer distances. My .223 isn't interested in anything over 200 yards. From 100 to 200 I shoot flat based 60gr VMaxs far more accurately than any boattailed bullet that I have tried.

Like I said earlier ... maybe I just didn't find the powder/primer/charge that the other bullets liked.

Not a big issue. Just thought it would be interesting to get other folks' thoughts and experiences.
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: Smokeless

Just a question. How can a boat tail bullet be less accurate at short range but more accurate at long range? I would venture to say that not one 1000yd bench rest shooter runs flat base bullets. They are all boat tail. So how does a bullet get more accurate beyond 200yds if it wasn't already accurate at 1 to 200yds?

At the yards your talking I think it comes down to what your rifle likes.

Ever try the 53gr V-max in your AR? That's a good and accurate bullet with boat tail.

If you're addressing that to me ... I didn't say boattail bullets were more accurate at longer distances. My .223 isn't interested in anything over 200 yards. From 100 to 200 I shoot flat based 60gr VMaxs far more accurately than any boattailed bullet that I have tried.

Like I said earlier ... maybe I just didn't find the powder/primer/charge that the other bullets liked.

Not a big issue. Just thought it would be interesting to get other folks' thoughts and experiences.


I agree. I also find this topic interesting.

My only point was that your rifle likes what it likes. However all long range shooters shoot bt bullets. If those bullets are accurate at long range they also have to be accurate at close range. Ragged hole type accurate. Bullets don't get more accurate as they go down range they only get less accurate. BT design bullets tend to maintain accuracy better than fb bullets. Meaning they are equally accurate at close range.

I run plenty of both. I find good accuracy with both at closer range. Not every rifle will shoot both well a lot of times. But all long range rifles shoot boat tails well.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokeless If those bullets are accurate at long range they also have to be accurate at close range. Ragged hole type accurate. Bullets don't get more accurate as they go down range they only get less accurate. BT design bullets tend to maintain accuracy better than fb bullets. Meaning they are equally accurate at close range.


You're still addressing a point that I already know. I never said boattail designs weren't accurate at short range. Not once. I simply said that my rifle shoots flat based better than boattails. Back to the original question .....

Originally Posted By: HidalgoAs strange as it may seem, I have had better accuracy at 100-200 yards with flat based bullets than I have had with boattailed bullets. Are any of you guys seeing any accuracy differences between these two designs?

Of course, it could have been the loads I was using and I just never found the magic mix of bullet and powder.
 
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A friend of recently asked me something along the line of this thread. He loaded some 180gr FB in his .308 and was very suprised how well they grouped. He asked me if he should try them for longer range shooting and i told him no.
He said wants to fimd some more of those 180FB bullets though
 
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