When did Remington 870s' quality go down hill?
- Thread starter Sebastian
- Start date
muskrat30
New member
One passed through me to a niece, that originally was bought by my Grandfather, 1960's or early 70's vintage is what I thought. This is based on his age & when he was doing stuff. It was a 20 ga in mint condition, he was a Model 12 guy.
The quality & shine was so much better than today's. I also got one a while back for me, traded to me for a muzzle-loader. It's a bit older with a 2 3/4" chamber. I was thinking if I was going to keep it or not, it has grown on me some.
It's the same with many other guns, rifles & handguns. I'd rather find an older on in pristine condition than much of the current stuff.
One of my best is a MINT Sako 1966 'Forester' in 243 from the original owner.
The quality & shine was so much better than today's. I also got one a while back for me, traded to me for a muzzle-loader. It's a bit older with a 2 3/4" chamber. I was thinking if I was going to keep it or not, it has grown on me some.
It's the same with many other guns, rifles & handguns. I'd rather find an older on in pristine condition than much of the current stuff.
One of my best is a MINT Sako 1966 'Forester' in 243 from the original owner.
GC
Well-known member
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. There is a marked difference between the Wingmaster and the Express. I have a late 50's model Wingmaster that is nearly silver from me packing it mile upon mile and it has killed a box carload of critters of all varieties. This old gun has never failed to feed, fire and eject. The action as smooth as butter and not a hint of rust ever. I have owned three Express models and every single one has had some issue or another. I hope to never be plagued with another Express 870 ever. Wingmaster's are always welcome here.
Rustydust
Active member
Originally Posted By: GCMake sure you are comparing apples to apples. There is a marked difference between the Wingmaster and the Express.
You got that right!
Once upon a time there was only the Wingmaster and if you wanted a pump Remington that is what you bought. My 870 (my only shotgun) is mid 70's vintage 12 gauge with 28" vent rib and modified choke. I have killed a slew of doves with mine as well as quail, rabbit and a very fine snow goose. It sees little action now compared to what it used to but I see no reason to ever get rid of it. Does all that I ever ask of it and that's a fact.
You got that right!
Once upon a time there was only the Wingmaster and if you wanted a pump Remington that is what you bought. My 870 (my only shotgun) is mid 70's vintage 12 gauge with 28" vent rib and modified choke. I have killed a slew of doves with mine as well as quail, rabbit and a very fine snow goose. It sees little action now compared to what it used to but I see no reason to ever get rid of it. Does all that I ever ask of it and that's a fact.
CARTER LAKE-SHARK
New member
just avoid the express. the sps and wingmasters are better. i got the bone collecter turkey model a while back for the kids, its been fine. rack the slide about a thousand times when no one else is home and it smoothes up nice.
I own wingmasters and express's and all are 20 years old or older. Never had a problem with either and the express gets used way more than my wingmasters. The Express is what I let friends and family borrow when needed because there is no way they are getting there hands on my wingmasters! But the express has performed flawlessly so far.
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Savage cat
New member
My grandpa just left me a new express and when you look at it, right off you can tell it's not the same as the older expresses. It's still shoots good and I've never had a problem with it. But after a season of being in and out if the duck blind and being wet occasionally it's like the finish on the stock is starting to come off. And the stocks aren't made out of birch anymore ( I think that's what they was made out of ) they are laminated now. And the parkerized finish will rust if you look at it wrong. But if your worried about that then buy a synthetic stock and soak it down with oil and your good to go. A guy told me that their quality has went down since they were bought out by the freedom group or whatever, don't know if that's true or not!!
Dixiedog1
New member
Didn't realize they had gone down hill. I've got new ones and old ones....the Express does tend to rust if you don't oil it but it's still a good shotgun. The SPS Turkey/Predator Supermag I bought this spring seems to be a great built shotgun as well. I've yet to have a problem with any of them.
Terry N.
New member
Originally Posted By: Savage cat And the parkerized finish will rust if you look at it wrong.
The finish isn't parkerizing, it's a black oxide, or something similar. And I agree, they rust if you look at them harshly! My coyote shotgun, an 870 Express, got the barrel chopped and rethreaded and a real parkerized finish. No problems with rust now, as long as I wipe it down with oil occassionally.
The finish isn't parkerizing, it's a black oxide, or something similar. And I agree, they rust if you look at them harshly! My coyote shotgun, an 870 Express, got the barrel chopped and rethreaded and a real parkerized finish. No problems with rust now, as long as I wipe it down with oil occassionally.
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Originally Posted By: Terry N.Originally Posted By: Savage cat And the parkerized finish will rust if you look at it wrong.
The finish isn't parkerizing, it's a black oxide, or something similar. And I agree, they rust if you look at them harshly! My coyote shotgun, an 870 Exoress, got the barrel chopped and rethreaded and a real parkerized finish. No problems with rust now, as long as I wipe it down with oil occasionally.
I worked the gun counter at the local Academy Sports during the spring of 2013, the wettest spring in memory. The Remington matte finished guns were rusting on the shelves. I had to wipe them down at least twice a week to avoid rust. A couple of fiends who have the 870 Express shotguns have severe rust problems with them. Remington has been selling on reputation for a long while now. These conglomerates, like Cerberus, are only interested in maximizing profits and that frequently comes at the sacrifice of quality.
The finish isn't parkerizing, it's a black oxide, or something similar. And I agree, they rust if you look at them harshly! My coyote shotgun, an 870 Exoress, got the barrel chopped and rethreaded and a real parkerized finish. No problems with rust now, as long as I wipe it down with oil occasionally.
I worked the gun counter at the local Academy Sports during the spring of 2013, the wettest spring in memory. The Remington matte finished guns were rusting on the shelves. I had to wipe them down at least twice a week to avoid rust. A couple of fiends who have the 870 Express shotguns have severe rust problems with them. Remington has been selling on reputation for a long while now. These conglomerates, like Cerberus, are only interested in maximizing profits and that frequently comes at the sacrifice of quality.
You mean like this.
This is just a few hours in the salt marsh sloshing around in the bottom of the skiff, dog tromping on it and laying it own in the eelgrss while moving decoys. I just prop it up in front of the stove to dry out and scrub down the outside with 0000 steel wool and oil, run an oily mop thru the bore and squirt Rem oil into the action. Go hunting the next day and do it all over again. Season here actually goes for four months and it's been doing it without a hitch for 20+ years, I have retired it to coyote hunting now and hunt with a sxs's but sure have to baby them compared to the Express. Oh the crappy looking stock shown has been refinished three time already, looks like it needs it again.
This is just a few hours in the salt marsh sloshing around in the bottom of the skiff, dog tromping on it and laying it own in the eelgrss while moving decoys. I just prop it up in front of the stove to dry out and scrub down the outside with 0000 steel wool and oil, run an oily mop thru the bore and squirt Rem oil into the action. Go hunting the next day and do it all over again. Season here actually goes for four months and it's been doing it without a hitch for 20+ years, I have retired it to coyote hunting now and hunt with a sxs's but sure have to baby them compared to the Express. Oh the crappy looking stock shown has been refinished three time already, looks like it needs it again.
SShooterZ
New member
Originally Posted By: SebastianIf I had the money I would get a wingmaster. If I find a good one at a pawn shop that would be cool!
So when did they start making expresses?
1987
This link has some good 870 info.
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/870/
So when did they start making expresses?
1987
This link has some good 870 info.
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/870/
Cinch
New member
Originally Posted By: SebastianWas thinking about getting an older Remington 870 because I heard the newer ones aren't as good. So my question is was there a certain year That the quality decreased and if so how can you tell?
This is exactly right. I recently picked up an 870 Tactical and a youth 20ga and they leave much to be desired... I think I'll look for an old one at a pawn shop and build it up how I want it.
This is exactly right. I recently picked up an 870 Tactical and a youth 20ga and they leave much to be desired... I think I'll look for an old one at a pawn shop and build it up how I want it.
I have several 870's, wingmaster and express. My first express bought in 1988 still goes with me most of the time. I taped the metal with No-Mar tape the night I bought it and it still wears about 2/3 of the original tape. Some paint was shot on a few areas also. Ducks all over the south, bears in canada, deer in Iowa, turkeys, ducks, doves,rabbits, deer and hogs in georgia. Its a lot smoother now after years of use, but has required no special care. I just spray a little rem oil or equivalent in it, wipe it down and go. After all I have put it through, I couldn't complain if it fell apart tomorrow.
Current production, only a benelli really measures up, and they don't fit me well.
Current production, only a benelli really measures up, and they don't fit me well.
GC
Well-known member
I have two Benelli semi auto's and love them but for the life of me cannot warm up to the Nova. In current production the Wingmaster is excellent, the Browning BPS is well built but it is a pig weight wise. Maybe the best built new pump shotgun is the newest Ohio built Ithaca M37. These latest generation M37's are slick! But that comes with a cost, they seem to be pretty pricy around here.
Coyotehunter_
New member
I used a Wingmaster 870 Remington in the 1960's. I bought it new at Rajo's Gun Shop on West Franklin Street, Evansville, IN back around 1967 or 1968. I had that gun until around 1987 when I sold it as I didn't go hunting after I got married. I now regret having sold it. The guy who bought it got a good gun and a good deal. I wish I had it back.
But now my neighbor has let me keep his Remington Model 870 Wing Master in my house as he didn't want his little kids getting their hands on his shotgun. I have his Remington Semi AutoMatic Twelve Gas too. I had two of his Model 870's but he asked for the shorter barreled one back. He let me hunt with his 870 Wing master twelve gauge a few times in the past. I still have the long barreled 12 gage one in my house. I used it one time for hunting dove and loved the way it shoot. I downed 5 doves in less than a half box of shotgun shells. And that was the first time I had shot a shotgun since the 1970's. My neighbors' 870 Wingmaster has the ventilated rib and the one I used to own didn't have that feature. I really liked the ribs on the barrel. It helps to aim better. I shoot with my left eye closed as I'm left eye dominate and shoot right handed. If I shoot with both eyes opened I miss every time. Close the left eye and aim with only my right eye and I'm a lot better shot. Sure miss that shotgun. And my neighbors Wingmaster shoots the 3" magnum shells too. My old Wingmaster only shot the 2 3/4" long shells. I use to reload them myself with a lee loader device.
But now my neighbor has let me keep his Remington Model 870 Wing Master in my house as he didn't want his little kids getting their hands on his shotgun. I have his Remington Semi AutoMatic Twelve Gas too. I had two of his Model 870's but he asked for the shorter barreled one back. He let me hunt with his 870 Wing master twelve gauge a few times in the past. I still have the long barreled 12 gage one in my house. I used it one time for hunting dove and loved the way it shoot. I downed 5 doves in less than a half box of shotgun shells. And that was the first time I had shot a shotgun since the 1970's. My neighbors' 870 Wingmaster has the ventilated rib and the one I used to own didn't have that feature. I really liked the ribs on the barrel. It helps to aim better. I shoot with my left eye closed as I'm left eye dominate and shoot right handed. If I shoot with both eyes opened I miss every time. Close the left eye and aim with only my right eye and I'm a lot better shot. Sure miss that shotgun. And my neighbors Wingmaster shoots the 3" magnum shells too. My old Wingmaster only shot the 2 3/4" long shells. I use to reload them myself with a lee loader device.
rth1959rth
New member
FWIW, I have a current production Wingmaster 20 guage and also a 12 and a 20 guage Express. The Wingmaster is as good or better than the old Wingmasters. Screw in chokes, cut checkering as opposed to pressed checkering, and satin finished wood instead of the shiny finish. I recently sold a current production 870 trap gun that was flawless.
Now comparing the 870 Express to an older Wingmaster is like comparing apples to oranges. The 870 Express is built to a price point and is a good value for the $ spent. They are 1/2 the cost of a new Wingmaster and are not as well finished. Mine are hunting/hard use guns. They have performed very well after a little chamber polishing to eliminate sticking of fired hulls. I keep them well oiled and have not had any rust issues but I clean my guns immediately after I get home from hunting.
Oh, this is from a Savage fan (moderate humor for the haters)!
rth1959rth
Now comparing the 870 Express to an older Wingmaster is like comparing apples to oranges. The 870 Express is built to a price point and is a good value for the $ spent. They are 1/2 the cost of a new Wingmaster and are not as well finished. Mine are hunting/hard use guns. They have performed very well after a little chamber polishing to eliminate sticking of fired hulls. I keep them well oiled and have not had any rust issues but I clean my guns immediately after I get home from hunting.
Oh, this is from a Savage fan (moderate humor for the haters)!
rth1959rth
GC
Well-known member
Here is my personal favorite 870 Express story. Here is a cut n' paste from a post of mine from back in the day...
"I had one that did that when there were shells in the magazine tube. The recoil would slam the gun back and inertia would cause the shells in the magazine to move forward and bind the spring and follower in the magazine tube leaving no pressure on the shells to cause them to move from the magazine tube onto the shell carrier. It did it to me twice one morning and I nearly got a wounded and very pee’d off snarling, spinning, snapping coyote in my lap because of it.
I called and then shot the first coyote of the morning in the head from about 30 yards as it peeked at me from behind a tree. The coyote immediately fell over on his nose and then gathered his feet under him and began spinning like a whirling dervish right to me. I racked the slide for the follow up shot and pulled down on the coyote carefully as it whirled closer and heard an alarming SNAP when I pulled the trigger. That firing pin falling on an empty chamber sounded like a blacksmith hammer on an anvil! The coyote didn’t realize it was spinning right into me and I was now scrambling trying to figure out whether to kick the coyote out of my lap or use the barrel of the useless shotgun to shovel it off me. Finally the coyote lined out and bailed off the side of the ridge. I cleared my jammed magazine tube and found the coyote dead about 200 yards down the holler. The very next stand I called a hard charger and rolled him head over heels, only to have him jump up and take off leaving me with a jammed shotgun again. After a good bit of tracking I finally found him dead about 250 yards away.
I fixed my problem by getting rid of the damned Express Model and I quit using turkey loads for coyotes. I was using Federal 3” 12 gauge two ounces of plated lead magnum number #4’s. After about a dozen bad experiences with that load I moved on to other bigger and considerably better things. I love the Wingmaster 870’s but I’ve owned three Express Models and all of them have had a problem of one sort or another."
"I had one that did that when there were shells in the magazine tube. The recoil would slam the gun back and inertia would cause the shells in the magazine to move forward and bind the spring and follower in the magazine tube leaving no pressure on the shells to cause them to move from the magazine tube onto the shell carrier. It did it to me twice one morning and I nearly got a wounded and very pee’d off snarling, spinning, snapping coyote in my lap because of it.
I called and then shot the first coyote of the morning in the head from about 30 yards as it peeked at me from behind a tree. The coyote immediately fell over on his nose and then gathered his feet under him and began spinning like a whirling dervish right to me. I racked the slide for the follow up shot and pulled down on the coyote carefully as it whirled closer and heard an alarming SNAP when I pulled the trigger. That firing pin falling on an empty chamber sounded like a blacksmith hammer on an anvil! The coyote didn’t realize it was spinning right into me and I was now scrambling trying to figure out whether to kick the coyote out of my lap or use the barrel of the useless shotgun to shovel it off me. Finally the coyote lined out and bailed off the side of the ridge. I cleared my jammed magazine tube and found the coyote dead about 200 yards down the holler. The very next stand I called a hard charger and rolled him head over heels, only to have him jump up and take off leaving me with a jammed shotgun again. After a good bit of tracking I finally found him dead about 250 yards away.
I fixed my problem by getting rid of the damned Express Model and I quit using turkey loads for coyotes. I was using Federal 3” 12 gauge two ounces of plated lead magnum number #4’s. After about a dozen bad experiences with that load I moved on to other bigger and considerably better things. I love the Wingmaster 870’s but I’ve owned three Express Models and all of them have had a problem of one sort or another."