Looking for a good varmint caliber with these qualities...

Gunner1

New member
I'm looking to get into varmint hunting-particularly coyotes and bobcats. I need the round to shoot fast, flat and not destroy the pelt. Not destroying the pelt is key. How about a .204 Ruger? Since I live in the communist state of NY the only requirement I have is it needs to be a bolt action.
 

I think what you may find is that you have a pretty tall order to fill, especially for cats. I too have been searching for just the right caliber and load that will give clean kills on coyotes, yet not destroy a fox pelt.

Currently I'm using a .17 Remington and 25 gr. Hornady hollow points at 3921 fps. It drops coyotes where they stand, like they were pole-axed, but is too much for fox, at least with the bullets and velocity I have been using. Bobcats are fairly thin-skinned too, though maybe not quite as much as fox, and while I haven't taken a cat with the 17 Rem, I suspect results may be similar. The bullet doesn't exit coyotes, however.

I have been told that a .17 caliber traveling around 3500 fps is pretty good on fox. That load is near the 17 Hornet velocity. Not sure how it might work for coyotes though.

As to the .204, I have never owned one but I have read a lot of reports about it. To my understanding, the .204 can be tough on fur. I'm sure someone with more experience with that caliber will chime in soon enough.

Good luck with your final choice, and be sure to keep us all posted how it goes in the field.



 
338 lapua mag ohh wait you said you don't want damage. My bad. Yeah that's a tall order from my experience to be easy on fox and cats usually means not enough for coyotes and if it puts coyotes down it's usually too hard on fox and cats.
 
Originally Posted By: Chupathingy.17 centerfire

You've been a member for 11 years and just now getting into calling?


Chupa

WOW!!! I didn't realize I had been a member here for that long. I've gone out a few times but my dad seems to really want to start hitting the furbearers hard after trapping season. I've used this forum for the "gun" side of things alot more than the predators side of things. LOL.
 
I think that it would depend on how far you plan on shooting?

17's and 204's are great. My buddy and I have been using 204 and 22-250, we get just as many blowouts with both. The blow outs only seem to stop once the pelts prime up and we started to shoot a little further back to avoid shoulders.

I would suggest a combo gun in 223 and 12g, or a 223, and carry a 12g with the modified choke and Hornday coyote shotgun shells. You will get less pelt damage switching to a shotgun inside of 50 yrds and using the rifle at 100+yrd shots.

Good luck, and hope it helps.
 
17 hmr and my 223 works in the desert!
smile.gif
.bolted from NY in 1993 never went back.ohhhhhhhhh!!.good luck..jim
 
There are a lot of good points already made. I used to use a 270 80grainer clipping about as fast as I could get it. Made a ok round for fox, just made a pin hole in and out if not to much into the bone. It tore up yotes. Then move to the 222 better all around gun with a little playing with loads. It was a little harder on fox and not so bad on yotes. I now shoot a 220 swift wish I had one way sooner. I shoot a 53 grainer a little slower and seems to work well at most yardages. I also use a 223 works just fine on yotes and that is what I mainly use it on. Trying to find a all around gun for all animals and all yardages is not going to happen. Pick critter and a yardage(the area that most of your shots will be taken from), then get a gun to do what you want in that field. Good luck! If you ever find that all around gun don't tell my wife, I have a feeling that I may only have one gun if that news ever got out!!!!!
 
I was going to ask about the 222 myself, I've killed coyotes with them no problems but never had opportunity on fox and even if I had a bobcat by the grace of God show up where I'm at I can't shoot it here
 
A lot of good info/ideas! I don't reload so factory ammo is a must but really any of the calibers mentioned seem like they'd be good. Also, maximum yardage would be around the 200 yard mark. I already have a .17 HMR which I'm sure is good for cats/foxes within 100 yards, but something with a bit more punch for song dogs is definitely what I need. Maybe the .204 does fit the bill if the general consensus is that the .17 Hornet isn't enough gun.
 
I’ve shot hundreds of coyotes with 17MIV,17 rem, and various 22 calibers since the 1980s. Recently been playing with 20 calibers. My take on the whole thing is if you’re looking to minimize pelt damage, your bullet selection is key. A 204 with a Vmax will leave a mess, but a 35 gr Berger is excellent and will minimally damage pelts. I have long ago ceased using 17 center fires on coyotes; while a well placed shot will kill them with minimal pelt damage, they are susceptible to wind and longer shots around 200 yards are unpredictable, having seen many wounded with that bullet. Besides, the 17 is pretty finicky, regarding temperature extremes, barrel fouling etc...you really need to be on your game to assure a clean kill with those. A .204 or .20 tactical or even a Vartarg with the right bullet will work quite well for killing power with minimal damage. I would look there. And one last thing...there are many suggesting .17hmr and .22 mag as adequate for coyotes. I wholeheartedly disagree and feel that rimfire rounds on a strong animal like that are cruel and inhumane. Leave those for ground squirrels.

Kurt
 
How about... A shottey?
870 per say. I shoot a LOT of dog with a load of lead "F" and NEVER hurt a pelt ,AND, you haven't lived till you get'm in to 50 yards and dump'm with a shot gun.
 
Originally Posted By: jetman How about... A shottey?
870 per say. I shoot a LOT of dog with a load of lead "F" and NEVER hurt a pelt ,AND, you haven't lived till you get'm in to 50 yards and dump'm with a shot gun.

I like this guy.


Chupa
 
Originally Posted By: Chupathingy.17 centerfire

You've been a member for 11 years and just now getting into calling?


Chupa

+1. 17 Remington is my go to fur harvester. So far the only damaged pelt was from a glancing shot. Put it in the bread basket and it's game over. The .204 with factory loads, especially the V-Max isn't going to do well on fur.
 
Ive only shot one bobcat with my 17 rem. It worked perfect. If it wasnt for a little blood you couldnt find the hole. Worked great on the couple hundred coyotes Ive shot with it too. Works fine out to 300 yards and a little more. Mine at least isnt sensitive to temp but I rarly use it in temps over 30 degrees and fouling has never been an issue.

Good 25gr bullets are tough to find,but you can find them.
 
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As previously stated, bullet selection is the key. 223's work well for my area but I also have a 22-250 for the open plains. For predator control I use a ballistic tip or varmint grenade. For pelts I use sierra Spitzer boat tail.
 
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