Muzzle loader greenhorn looking for general input

A

Adrian Rude

New member
Howdy boys, so I was given 2 ML vouchers for cow elk and doe deer, so it's time to learn. I was shown the basics with a T/C G2 with a 22" barrel. I really enjoyed it and I hate borrowing stuff, so I did some research and bought a T/C pro hunter FX 209x50 magnum. I got it sighted in, it will make touching holes at 60 yards, but since my "iron sight" experience is limited to pistols, out a at 100 yards I shot 3-4". I think I will get better with practice practice practice. I'm looking for general input and advice from some old pros.

My experience so far:
90 grains Shockeys gold with 245 power belt. 1,125 fps = LAME!

90 grains pyrodex RS 245 power belt. 1,550 fps = pretty good, accurate

90 grains 2f GOEX holy black 245 power belt 1,625 fps = accurate, nice load.

I've since picked up ( but have yet to shoot) some of the Hornady FPB in 300 and 350 grain, and some 50/44 sabots to try pistol bullets for practice. I can't hunt with them in CO, but I mostly want the knowledge. I have pistol bullets coming out my ears so what the heck. I also picked up 2 cans of Blackhorn 209. I know to use the hot primers with the blackhorn, but what else does it like? Hot-rod charges or more mild for good results? I understand " whatever your rifle likes", I'm looking for your input and results.

Also, if any one has a T/C FX, have you done anything to float the barrel, if so, did it help? I'm thinking a rubber spacer of some kind, like an O- ring or chunks of inner tube might have a positive effect. In this day and age of misguided bass ackwards gun legislation, and panic purchasing,the ranges are crowded with first time gun owners missing 25 yard paper plates. I really want to fine tune this thing to do some [beeep] kickin! I'm also really looking forward to some cow elk TROPHY STEAK!
 
I'm always in favor of bigger is better, as in 300+ grains of whatever bullet you choose. At the distances you're talking about with open sights in some of the terrain I'm guessing you'll be in, I would want bigger with more energy to put them down. I understand you can't use sabots, but there are some other excellent choices out there. Just for the heck of it you might try some of the T/C conicals also. I've usually found the sweet spot with loose powder to be around 110 grains in muzzleloaders capable of handling magnum charges, I've also shot pellets just for convenience. Sounds like you made out great with the vouchers, good luck.
 
I'm not familiar with that gun but mostly what will shoot well depends on twist rate.Lymans ML book is well worth having.Covers pretty much everything you'll need to know.
 
I have had great luck with the shockwave superglide bullets in 250 grain on top of 100 grains of 777. I would also recommend trying blackhorn 209. Using this combo has gotten me 2 to 3 inch groups with iron sights. using a scope will produce moa if you fine tune your load. shoot sorry I just saw you cannot use sabots. If that is the case I would stick to powerbelts for bullets and put them on top of the blackhorn 209 you have. start at 90 grains and work up till you start to see accuracy loss then go back to where it was before it dropped off.
 
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IMO stay with the blackhorn and chuck the rest as it's almost non corrisive and you use less. I use 90 gr and hornaday 325 gr buffalo bullets and it will smack them like a semi truck at 100+. you will also love the clean up as you can shoot probably 10 rounds between clean up and only use 3 or 5 patches. you gonna love it and also just because you can shoot magnum charges dosent mean accuracy and sometimes you can see unburnt powder being spent outside the barrel. MZ are addictive. Enjoy and safe and happy hunting.
 
@ BernieP -- it's a 1:28 twist. It seems the bullets are all kind of close in length. For example in .223 a 77 grain match bullet is way longer than say a 50 grain v-max. Is there a bullet I should avoid or one that I should seek out now that you know the twist?

@bigtommy-- what about the powerbelts do you like so much? They're readily available almost everywhere, so you must not be the only one who likes them. Please expound.

Seems like the blackhorn powder is the way to go. No two ways about it. I can't wait to burn some up.

Now here's another question. Why can't I shoot hornady xtp bullets made for the 500 s&w? They're less than half the price of any muzzleloader specific bullet, so it seems to good to be true. Just seems obvious.Maybe too big to push down the bore?Maybe they're too hard to expand and form a good seal? If that's all it is, why not use a lubed felt wad under it? I don't want to blow up my new gun, or my face . I can't be the first person to think of this, I'm hoping someone has tried it, or can explain why it's a unsafe/ non-accurate idea

Thanks a lot for your responses so far.
 
Agree on the Blackhorn 209....the stuff is great. Shoots clean and is a breeze to clean up, also helps produce some very respectable groups out of my TC Endeavor
 
Try this site for some good info. http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/

Blackhorn 209 is a great powder, consistent powerder compression is sometimes an issues with hornady fpb and powerbelt bullets. (You can't compress it to much)Thor bullets are a modified Barnes full bore conical that work great when sabots are not an option. https://thorbullets.com
They used to send a sample pack to find the proper fit to your bore. The .500 pistol bullets work well if you knurl them by rolling between two files to get an interference fit to your bore. If bh209 doesn't work for you my choice would be loose pyrodex, 777 can be a pain if you don't swab the bore every other shot as it tends to leave a crude ring at the top of the powder column with 209 primers. Good luck it's been 15 years since I've hunt the Colorado muzzleloader season.
 
Originally Posted By: rvbTry this site for some good info. http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/

Blackhorn 209 is a great powder, consistent powerder compression is sometimes an issues with hornady fpb and powerbelt bullets. (You can't compress it to much)Thor bullets are a modified Barnes full bore conical that work great when sabots are not an option. https://thorbullets.com
They used to send a sample pack to find the proper fit to your bore. The .500 pistol bullets work well if you knurl them by rolling between two files to get an interference fit to your bore. If bh209 doesn't work for you my choice would be loose pyrodex, 777 can be a pain if you don't swab the bore every other shot as it tends to leave a crude ring at the top of the powder column with 209 primers. Good luck it's been 15 years since I've hunt the
Colorado muzzleloader season.

How coarse of files? Like horse shoe rasp or something fine like I'd use to clean up threads on a bolt? I'd sure appreciate a close up picture of an example if you happen to have one. I'm encouraged you say they will work. I would happily take some time to knurl them. Would you run some kind of patch or wad with them even after the knurling ? I prep and prime brass to relax and keep my head straight, this would fit right in. 100 bullets for $30 is quite appealing. I'm going to stick with loose powder, can't hunt with pellets and they seem expensive. I hope the blackhorn works good, but if not, cleaning the bore isn't that big of a deal. I have only gone as far as 2 shots without running a couple patches. ThSt 2nd bullet has a lot more resistance, I don't want to have an easily avoided problem while I'm trying to learn.
 
@Rvb----
I followed that link and found someone who tested it with .500 ftx. Just like you said it may need knurling for a good fit, but maybe not. I'm thrilled that I can shoot this rifle for the same price as a pistol. I hope I get good accuracy, I'm glad I at least don't have to be scared of a KA-BOOM! This site is great for finding stuff out.

Please Feel free to pass on anymore information you have about this.
Thanks !
 
Twist rate with ML's is about bullet type more so than weight.Fast twist goes with sabot's medium with conicals slow with patched balls.There's some overlap.My TC Omega 1-28 shoot's cons almost as well as sabots while a Lyman GPR 1-60 I had shot some cons decent but was best with PRB's.Same as with smokeless some powders/charges will shoot better in a given gun.With any powder I alway's give it a thorough cleaning ASAP.If you decide to use a scope I'd recommend using QD rings/base.Makes cleaning easier.
 
One other thing.It's fairly common to need to shoot a "fouling" shot with a clean bore.The following shot's will often group several inches apart from the first in some guns.
 
@ BernieP -- on fouling shot.

Ive read so much about keeping the bore clean, I'm wondering about fouling the bore on the day of the hunt. If I can't shoot it the day before opening morning, how long of you think I can leave a fouled bore without causing pitting or corrosion? In your experience, would popping a couple primers bring my POI inline with what a fouled bore will shoot? I cleaned the barrel and then popped a primer, just to see. I was really surprised how dirty the bore was after just one primer.

I realize I'll have to do my own testing. I'm raising my daughter alone, so range trips are limited to once a month or so. I don't think 2-3 trips is enough to be so proficient with iron sights that I'll definitely be able to blame a big group on bore fouling condition.
 
I am also a muzzleloading newbie. I bought a T/C Impact .50 caliber a few weeks ago and started doing some research. I put a DNZ scope mount on it and grabbed the only loose scope I had laying around, an old Bushnell straight 4X wide angle. Got my hands on some Blackhorn 209 powder, Hornady 250 gr. XTP .451" bullets, Harvester Crush Rib sabots and Winchester primers. I shot my first shots on Tuesday of this week. I started low at 80 grains to get a feel for it and then moved up five grains at a time. At 95 grains I found a nice shooting load. Should be giving me about 1,800+ fps and from what I gather should work well on timber country whitetails here in the Ozarks.



EDIT: BTW, with the Blackhorn powder I never swabbed the bore at all between shots. I shot 27 shots and the last loaded darn near as easy as the first. I ended that session with shooting two soda cans one shot each at one hundred yards.
 
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GC " I found a nice shooting load"

I would say so, what's the distance on that? I can't hunt with a scope in CO, but I'm actually enjoying the iron sights. I've been watching critters in crosshairs since I was a kid, this new challenge is really cool.

Maybe I should scope it just for load development, and then take it off once I find the sweet spot.
 
That is 100 yards at a conservation department firing range. I like iron sights, an aperture (peep) sight isn't hard to use at all and is faster than regular open irons and more accurate to boot. I have killed a lot of game with aperture sighted lever guns over the years and if I couldn't use a scope a good aperture sight wouldn't handicap me much for hunting here in the big woods.
 
Adrian you pretty much answered that yourself.You'll just have to try a few different things and see.Primer's alone could do the trick but I never tried that myself.If not I would go with Blackhorn powder to buy as much time before having to worry about corrosion starting.How much time you have is hard to say.If it's raining/damp weather less for sure.I lucked out with the Omega.It shoots to the same place clean or not.My first ML TC's Black Diamond had to be fouled.I just fired off a light 20gr load of Pyrodex Select with a bore button before heading into the woods.Sometimes putting one of those bore buttons under a conical will tighten up groups a bit.I didn't see any difference with sabots.
 
Originally Posted By: hunt-m-upI've found firing off a primer will foul enough to make my guns shoot well.

How much different do they shoot without the primer fouling shot?
 
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