Why are PA coyotes so hard to call?

I started seeing a lot more when I upped my stand time to an hour. All but 2 I've had come in took more than 45 min, even when I heard them close by. Wind has to be dang near perfect, they seem extremely wary at night around here.
 
I think I'm gonna invest in a coyote magnet I seen advertised in the predator hunting forum a while back.
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It will come.....After the first one, it gets better.Experiment with ALOT of different sounds and setups....Dont be bound by what you read. For example, dont think you cant call coyotes at midday or that they wont come out in the open. I was never successful until I started going out and locating dogs from the road and then sneaking into where I KNEW they were close by.I completely changed my "system" when I discovered that you can go out at 10am and set up in the thickest forest you can find and call them shotgun close.Biggest thing is keep at it!
 
Problem around here is getting them to answer a locator call, or at least hear them when they do. I've heard them answer the fire siren in town 3 miles down the road, but have only gotten an answer once while locating. I believe that was because they were less than 100 yds away. I started having better luck seeing them when I had some of the property owners text or call me when they hear or see them, even then they may be miles away by the time I get there. Wind is another big issue, it never seems to blow the same direction the whole time I'm on a stand. It's hard to play the wind if it changes 5 minutes into your stand.
 
Originally Posted By: jrcampbellProblem around here is getting them to answer a locator call, or at least hear them when they do. I've heard them answer the fire siren in town 3 miles down the road, but have only gotten an answer once while locating. I believe that was because they were less than 100 yds away. I started having better luck seeing them when I had some of the property owners text or call me when they hear or see them, even then they may be miles away by the time I get there. Wind is another big issue, it never seems to blow the same direction the whole time I'm on a stand. It's hard to play the wind if it changes 5 minutes into your stand.

Pennsylvania is very tough for the wind because its constantly swirling with all the mountains and valleys. I personally like in the last few months that we routinely get sustained wind up to 30 mph, most nights I get out hunting. Really helps out there
 
My hunting partner and i just started hunting yotes this year, so far we have not taken any. We use mouth and electronic calls and our only responses were in thick woods with shotguns,we saw 3 with no shots a ailable. We have a lot to learn but we will get there.
 
In western Pa we have lower populations of coyotes but plenty of them. We deal with insane rolling terrain and hills and valleys, wind direction that is forever changing at a moments notice, few areas to hunt from that are ideal for setting up either due to rolling terrain or access and now the gas pads that are in every location we hunt.

A couple weekends back I howled in a double that ran past my buddy and dropped over the hill to a bench. They howled and challenged back but wouldn't show for a shot. Next set was at night in high wind and rain. One came in at 100 + yards then took off. A week before that, every other set we had numerous groups howl from all directions. Decided to make a move and set up near a buddy's pole barn after hearing them on a property across the road we hunt. After 45 min I was picking up the fury and heard a shot. A sneaky SOB walked in our tracks and stopped at a high woodpile. My buddy lit him up while scanning and getting ready to pick up his gear. He took a short 30 yd shot and spun him in circles. No yelping but he danced after being hit. Could not find any blood or hair. No recovery after much effort at night then again in the am.

We deal with thick terrain they can sneak in through. I know in my area we call in more then we see. Just got to hunt harder and smarter. Love it and the challenge we endure to become successful predator masters in the east but I wish we could see further and it not be so dang thick and dense where we hunt in western PA.
 
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and i thought i was the only feller in the country that was trying to hunt coyotes in the thick Appalachian mountains facing the unpredictable sudden changing winds. dense hunting pressure. trying to take an educated guess on when they would be in a particular area and not 10 miles away on the other side of the mountain. getting close enough to make them interested in the call. Never responding to a locator howl but sometimes will if the fire truck or ambulance goes by. and for the most part never howl except for about 2 weeks towards the end of January. but now talking bobcats, I probably call in as many of them as any weekend worrier can call each year. but they seem to hang around areas similar to how fox do and they don't have a nose much better then we do or they just ain't afraid of human smell one. but after reading what all you boys are saying, and reading the similarities, i guess the question should be, "why are Appalachian mountain coyotes so hard to call"
 
No mountains around here, but the wind plays havoc on every one of my sets. Wish we had cats like that around here. Saw tracks of one this year, which is highly unusual around here.
 
Originally Posted By: Steel City ArcherI am convinced that the coyote population has tripled in my county in the last 10 years. Our deer herd is indicative to that.

We have a problem and unless something is done to get it out of control, our county will remain at the bottom of the deer harvest list each year.

If your talking about PA and the deer population you can put most of the blame on the PGC for allowing multiple doe tags and week long doe season. I dont think coyotes kill as many deer as many think. Bears kill more fawns than coyotes. Thats a proven study here in PA. And we as hunters do far more to the deer population than wild animals could ever do. Our deer heards are comming back in my area really well and we have alot of coyotes and bears here in clearfield county.. I hunt SF and SGL and have no problem finding deer.
 
The multiple tags and week long season haven't hurt the population here at all. except on whatever game lands the Amish decide to decimate for a few years. A lot of the woods around here are browsed so hard there aren't any branches within reach for them to eat. some areas should get less tags and others more. Some of that blame has to go to fellow hunters taking poor shots and others not counting points. I've seen more deer left to waste in the years since the antler restrictions and longer doe seasons than I care to mention. It's disgusting and lazy.
 
I am on a phone and can't give a full reply. I live in Butler PA, and spend a considerable amount of time in south east Ohio. I am in the woods 5-6 days a week, miles at a time, and don't use trails. (Year round)

I'm working on a paper of a scientific nature that will hopefully be published on what's been going on in the woods. The coyote phenomenon is worth a huge reply... but let me go ahead and mention the ticks.

16 years ago, i lived in an area filled with upland game birds. The PA game commission started farming and releasing stupid and genetically weak upland game birds by my first witness at least 11 years ago. It most likely started before that. The birds bred throughout, and caused a species collapse.. These species are well extirpated through most of their range. There are a few healthy sparse populations in areas like the northeast. (Maine)

This method is purposeful in the field of Entomology as it relates to the department of agriculture. My cousin (an entomologist) releases sterile fruit flies to collapse the Spanish fruit fly population in Florida.

Our tick eaters are gone, and any entity that broadcasts false information about temperatures (global warming) that is to blame over recent years is most likely hiding the above fact. The structure of a tick is not effected by such things. They started moving in Febuary.

White tails adapt to ticks by grooming, but that practice is getting interrupted by deer being run by coyote day and night. The fawns are more likely to get sucked dry and pumped with disease while the adults play cat and mouse with coyote. Grooming was meant to deal with typical numbers of ticks, it may not be enough.

Between Ohio and PA I have found 15 coyote deer kills in 2 months. All killed by [beeep] bleeding and exhaustion. How quickly bones are eaten is directly related to the proximity of other deer kills.

Ignoring the variable of hogs entering the food chain in certain areas..

. this is why it is getting harder to fill the freezer.
 
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Haven't all the pheasants they've released in the last dozen or so years been stupid and genetically weak? This was the first year in a long time I've chased them that they've actually ran and been somewhat difficult to put up. Even so I've still saw quite a few that make it into the next year. Any idea why they still let us kill hens? There hasn't been a decent number of pheasants since we could kill hens. That coupled with the stocking truck followers seems more of a reason for the low numbers, but that's just what I've seen, no scientific proof there. Killed quite a few roosters this year that actually had tails also.

One section of game lands 95 is about a half mile from my house and every day in deer season for the past 4 years there are 2 van loads of Amish there, and they kill quite a few deer. Yet right around my house, which is all private, you can see close to 50 deer in the fields every evening, sometimes more. If you have access to private land, around here it's easy to fill your freezer.

When you see coyote killed deer what do you look for to tell that's how they've been killed? During and right after deer season it's easy to tell when someone has left a deer when it's a four point with a bullet hole in it. I've seen some I suspect we're ran by totes but we're eaten too much for me to tell what killed them.
 
I'm glad you replied to this topic, and we live in the same county. I was very busy during the deer season, and would only creep into specific areas to hunt. (Ohio this year)

The deer really became noticeable well after the season during the bitter cold. If the kill is fairly fresh, sometimes the body looks intact, and the butt area is bloody. I require my hiking girlfriend to photograph and determine cause of death if it appears to be a canine kill. Near public parks, humans might disturb them enough to stay off of the kill until a storm or cold front comes in. I assumed when the weather warmed up, the deer kill would slow down. Through the spring the adult deer kills were consistent. In march and April there were bucks that had shed antlers and doe that were killed next to a private lake. For over 10 years that seems to be a prime spot for them to kill. I assume the deer turn their back to the water?

Years back we saw a large coyote run by a glass door around 10pm. The tracks outside were large like a German Shepard. Following them in the dark sounded unsafe at the time. (Too young) It was on a remote 380 acre property in south east Ohio. The next morning, the large trotting prints joined a pack of 5-6+ coyote, and the track let to a kill 175 yards away. The only think left was a skull and a 10 point rack, and a front leg. Time lines are shaky, but I believe they ate the entire animal before spreading the bones that night. That has been the only observed pack kill crime scene. From video out there, one distracts while the other bites at the butt.

Even the bones don't last long, unless they kill another deer within a two week time. Fawns might be eaten whole. This spring I went hiking in Maine, PA, and Ohio over 3 weeks, and found 4 fresh but devoured kills; Tracks were used to locate.

You are right about the deer movement. No hunting pressure, or higher hunting pressure spread out seems to increase our odds. Moderate pressure is extremely challenging to deal with. Hunting in Butler county, I remember the deer getting pushed to each segment of woods. To cause a deer stress when it has access to safe cover is a recipe for nocturnal activity. In the foothills around Ohio they bed at the tops of cliffs, and rarely present a clear shot.

I haven't worked around the park rangers or commission workers in awhile, so am not sure about what their current strategy is. It appears they are treating pheasants like trout. For years away, and release birds that are about as durable as a chicken. We used to complain that the birds wouldn't even try to get away. The months between hunting seasons, I guess it would be possible to see a straggler that had been released. The farther away from game lands you are, the more unlikely this is. When the trout season is over, there certainly very many trout. One Waterways conservation officer explained to me (12 years ago) that the trout don't need to be able to eat or survive in those streams (although a few might) they are just there to be caught.

Makes you wonder if it's the genes, or somewhat bad genes and hen kills. People used to see domestic cats catching the released birds.
The solution to this problem is fairly simple, but they probably aren't willing to do it. The cost in the end will be our original bird genetics. A few imported wild birds that aren't hunted would be a good start.

Sorry for the scattered reply, this phone is bouncing around the image.
 
Good info there. Never gave it a thought that they'd eat everything that quick. I was pretty surprised at the way the pheasants acted this year, that and the Long tail feathers. Makes me think they're doing something different.
 
If they wanted to make a slower attempt at recovering the population without sharing their past business practices, they would release trapped birds from another state after the hunting season. That way they can slowly settle into our woods? That's more expensive and complicated, but similar to what they did with other animals.

Other info: For some of this woodsmanship, I have been cheating. Although tracks always point to feeding locations, I gave my father in Ohio a 150 pound malamute that is wicked smart and an air scenter. He has educated me on where the coyote store food, or have been active. Here is the first education: the two most recent carcasses were the least picked over, meaning the coyote didn't bother with the hard bones. This isn't typical for most seasons, as the bones are eaten over a period of days. They were at the edge of a lake in heavy cover, within 150 feet of eat other. It's like a grizzly eating only the rich Salmon Roe, and discarded the rest of the salmon. 70+ feet away a chunk of meaty flesh with hair was burried for later further up the hill. It was quite rancid. The dog pointed all of these out.

You are certainly paying attention. We needs upland game birds back, if not for controlling things or creating balance we can barely understand. When we do get to hunt them, it will mean something. They certainly have beautiful meat.

Up in Maine they have a healthy population of wild upland game birds, and it is really something to see. I would be interested to hear how your coyote hunting has been goin in PA some time. I'm getting into it, and moving quickly.
 
Pa yotes are smart...i did'nt call my first till the second season out here in mont county..I put 4 hours at a set..finally the yote howled on the way to pickup the caller and leave...I got so excited when i seen him at 125 yards..i let off the pressure switch for the light and he busted and ran..waited 2 weeks and hunted the dog again...never to see it again...I think i caught him comming threw after midnight and got lucky...Rusty
 
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