17 HH neck die with 17AH brass

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6724

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my full length 17AH die when set to size only the neck still sizes the body of the case. so i need a neck die, but no one stocks a 17AH neck die. i figured after checking the dimensions of a 17 HH compared to a 17AH, that i could use the 17HH neck die.

the 17HH neck die showed up today, after marking the neck, shoulder and top of the body of the fired 17 AH brass, i ran one into the die, turning the die in just until the ink on the shoulder/ body joint got a small mark, then backed the die out just enough. it was sizing about 85% of the neck.

i was home free, finally i could load some more 17 AH! after about 100 cases through the die, i noticed as i went to toss one in the sized bin that the neck was crooked! i rolled it on the table and sure enough, the neck was not parallel to the case axis! i put the brass in the gun and with some effort closed the bolt, the extracted brass had a shiny spot on one side near the case mouth. i tried the die in another press just to make sure that it was not my 30 year old lee 'O' press, but the brass came out the same when the die was in the rcbs press.

i think if i run the die down to the point where the shoulder just comes into contact with the die, that the neck should be straight. but, i do not want to alter the body of the case and after bending the neck over and then straightening it out would seem to work the brass in a bad way.
some of the cases are better than others, but some are really bad. i cannot believe that a round loaded with a crooked neck is worth shooting.

So, anyone need an RCBS 17HH neck die?

needless to say, i am not too happy. by the time i can get a proper neck die the ground squirrel season will be done. so it is back to full length sizing or no 17 AH shooting!
 
cooper model 38.

it shoots very well. i shot some groups while fire forming and sighting in that were well under 1/2".

earlier you suggested that i was wasting my time looking for a bushing neck die. if i understand your reasoning, the brass will not be used up by over working, but from case head expansion.
when i run my fired brass into the full length die, the body at the shoulder contacts the die immediately. i am not pushing the shoulder back, but the case body is being sized down. i would prefer not to do that. i suppose i am in the position of needing a custom die.

how much clearance, if any is there from the case body to the die wall on a bushing die? i assume that the reason i have bent necks with the 17HH die is that the body is not supported.
 
So if I understand you correctly..
Your brass is making contact with the die at the body/shoulder junction of the brass as it enters the die?

Edit to add.
What's your fired brass measure at the shoulder body junction?

I'm just guessing but I bet there's a bulge on the body just above the rim too.
 
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So just to check the redding 17AH FL die you have.

What's the body/shoulder measure before and after sizing with it?

Also.
What's the measurement above the rim on the brass before and after sizing?

Place the brass in your shell holder and use the thick part of your calipers to measure ontop of the shell holder. The reason for this is to get a good diamention above the web on the back of the brass. Its also the place on the brass that's generally oversized because of sloppy reamer diamentions.
 
i went ahead and resized all of them yesterday so i currently do not have a fired case to measure, but the resized case runs .288 at the shoulder and .298 right above the case head. there is an asymmetric bulge on the case forward of the case head both before and after resizing.
i measured a fired case at the shoulder a few weeks ago and i do not recall the number, but my recollection was that the case was .004 smaller in diameter at the shoulder after sizing. but that does not make sense, if that were the difference i would not get resistance in the die until the fired case was about half way into the die. i will fire one today and see what i get.
 
fired case has a .194 neck, .300 above the case head, and .292 body at the shoulder.

so it seems that the resistance i am feeling as the case enters the die must be something besides the case wall at the shoulder.

set up with only about 75 to 80% of the case neck being sized, the case body is still being sized down. on the first sizing after fireforming i notice a length increase of .001 before and after sizing.
 
When you said you sized them all the other day... was that with the 17AH die or was it with the HH die?

Take the die out of the press and place a case in it by hand and see if you can figure out where that resistance is coming from.

The biggest problem is Coopers factory 17AH chambers are oversized. Which leads to that buldge in the case above the case head. It sounds like its a bit large at the shoulder too. My chamber was cut with a min spec reamer that was based off of Winchester brass. My fired cases are .293 above the rim and .289 at the shoulder. Sized thru the redding FL die and they are .286+ at the shoulder and that .293 above the rim didn't change.
 
after having about 100 to 150 with potentially bent necks, i ran them all through the full length die without touching the shoulder.

it appears that the chamber is just on the large side. the brass does enter the die about half way before the body contacts the side of the die.

i loaded all my brass, good for the rest of the summer unless i find another area with a good population of ground squirrels. that gives me the time to find a neck die.

after neck sizing about 500 22-250's i realize how wonderful it is not to have to lube the cases and then clean when done.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724
after neck sizing about 500 22-250's i realize how wonderful it is not to have to lube the cases and then clean when done.



Ain't THAT the truth!!
 
Originally Posted By: 6724after having about 100 to 150 with potentially bent necks, i ran them all through the full length die without touching the shoulder.


If they still chamber in your rifle there isn't anything wrong with that.

Before you spent 200+ dollars on a custom die, I would send the rifle to Ray Montgomery down here in Grand Junction and have him cut the old chamber off and redo it with his reamer. It will cost you less than a custom die and you will have a rifle with a chamber that won't put bulges on the cases and will work great with your existing die.
 
with the barrel profile it has, i am not sure it could be set back. i think i will keep shooting the brass i have and see where it goes. they are now loaded for their 3rd time.
i believe you posted a while back that you start to get loose primer pockets around the 3rd or 4th loading. if that happens to me too, then the brass is almost done.
 
Is the rifle a varminter or a classic? If its a classic then I doubt you could set it back but any of my M38 Varminters could probably handle it because the barrel taper is pretty long and the case is pretty short.

Yea that little hornet brass doesn't last forever. In my experience with shooting the 22H and 17AH is the primer pockets seem to be the first thing to go and If you try pushing it too hard they go really fast. The stuff is like a box of chocolates.. LOL
 
the rifle is a classic. great wood, shoots great, and i got a good deal on it.

i will know pretty soon if i am going to get a 4th loading or not. i see guys proclaiming 3800fps or better with the cartridge using 20gr bullets. i am running 3450fps and that seems to be just fine on the squirrels.
 
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