I just bought a Starfighter Gen2A Night Vision DOH410 Scope made by CounterSniper Optics. I would like to buy a IR illuminator that would flood the targeting area at 100 to 125yds as well as spot light it. What would be better, a UNV 20-IR, a Armasight IR810W or IR850W or maybe something from Night Optics Or ?????? I'm new to night vision hunting for fox, cats, and coyotes and need some advice! Should I consider an 810 or 850nm range?
IR Illumination
- Thread starter Snorh
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family guy
New member
LLTL-001 is the brightest IR that I know of (1070 mw European led and driver). You can focus it down or open it up. Also has a simple on off switch. Used one to shoot a coyote at 350 yards Friday.
But for 150 yards you could get by with a 3w ultrafire ir found on ebay for $30 or a eagle tac IR for $60.
But for 150 yards you could get by with a 3w ultrafire ir found on ebay for $30 or a eagle tac IR for $60.
HTRN57
New member
Originally Posted By: SnorhI just bought a Starfighter Gen2A Night Vision DOH410 Scope made by CounterSniper Optics. I would like to buy a IR illuminator that would flood the targeting area at 100 to 125yds as well as spot light it. What would be better, a UNV 20-IR, a Armasight IR810W or IR850W or maybe something from Night Optics Or ?????? I'm new to night vision hunting for fox, cats, and coyotes and need some advice! Should I consider an 810 or 850nm range?
For choice on nanometers (nm) it is a matter of trade-offs. Nanometers is the unit of measure used to define the wavelength of the IR light used in the device. In general, the higher the nm rating the harder it becomes for your NV device to detect it and the less range it will have. Given the same power rating(normally expressed in miliwatts (mw)) of the IR device, you will notice the higher the nm rating the less intense (bright) the spot will appear to be in your NV screen, and the less range it will have over a lower nm rated unit. Most IR devices built for NV purposes go up to a maximum of about 940nm. Wavelengths beyond 1000nm (approaching microwave) are hardly visible using NV devices no matter how powerful they become. The only benefit that I am aware of for going with higher nm ratings is that predators/humans cannot detect the "source" of the IR light as well as with the lower nm rated units. So if you want a a high intensity spot with maximum range and don't care about being detected, go with a lower nn rating and higher mw rating. If you want to be more covert in your surveilance and don't care about the range, go with a higher nm rating and lower mw rating. You can check out the LLTL-001 that family guy is talking about that I have posted on ebay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251472339686?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649
This one has an 850nm wavelength and 1,079mw power rating so it puts out a very bright spot with a range in excess of a half mile. Kevin
For choice on nanometers (nm) it is a matter of trade-offs. Nanometers is the unit of measure used to define the wavelength of the IR light used in the device. In general, the higher the nm rating the harder it becomes for your NV device to detect it and the less range it will have. Given the same power rating(normally expressed in miliwatts (mw)) of the IR device, you will notice the higher the nm rating the less intense (bright) the spot will appear to be in your NV screen, and the less range it will have over a lower nm rated unit. Most IR devices built for NV purposes go up to a maximum of about 940nm. Wavelengths beyond 1000nm (approaching microwave) are hardly visible using NV devices no matter how powerful they become. The only benefit that I am aware of for going with higher nm ratings is that predators/humans cannot detect the "source" of the IR light as well as with the lower nm rated units. So if you want a a high intensity spot with maximum range and don't care about being detected, go with a lower nn rating and higher mw rating. If you want to be more covert in your surveilance and don't care about the range, go with a higher nm rating and lower mw rating. You can check out the LLTL-001 that family guy is talking about that I have posted on ebay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251472339686?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649
This one has an 850nm wavelength and 1,079mw power rating so it puts out a very bright spot with a range in excess of a half mile. Kevin
The Armasight units are 600mw and dont use an aspheric head like the 20ir which throws light much farther. You will get a tighter beam with the 810 or 850 and they are lighter units, but emit but less light and run on non rechargeable CR123s. IMO you would be better off with the 20ir on price and performance and after the purchase costs. But, the decision is yours. Just need to decide if a tighter beam and weight are more important to you, or do you want the brightest IR light on the market?
Victor_TNVC
New member
Thought I would chime in here. Our Torch Pro reaches out to 800 yards and is the best in it's class for versatility. Folks can use any of the Surefire battle proven tape switches, clicky caps etc.
Our silky smooth bezel lets the user adjust the beam width by 1-10deg by simply reaching down on the weapon while in a shooting position.
The Torch Pro has been our #1 accessory to the Predator hunter out there. We have another batch fresh off the German optic assembly line. Yes, our ultra clear lenses are made in Germany and the rest of the housing made here in America. It's beam reaches a true 800 yards, but most hogs and Yotes can only been seen so far. 800 yards gives our long range clip-on users that long range option for larger type targets.
http://tnvc.com/shop/tnvc-torch-pro-infrared-illuminator/
Thanks guys!
Our silky smooth bezel lets the user adjust the beam width by 1-10deg by simply reaching down on the weapon while in a shooting position.
The Torch Pro has been our #1 accessory to the Predator hunter out there. We have another batch fresh off the German optic assembly line. Yes, our ultra clear lenses are made in Germany and the rest of the housing made here in America. It's beam reaches a true 800 yards, but most hogs and Yotes can only been seen so far. 800 yards gives our long range clip-on users that long range option for larger type targets.
http://tnvc.com/shop/tnvc-torch-pro-infrared-illuminator/
Thanks guys!
Bullsprings
New member
The torch is excellent. It really reaches out as far as they claim.
Victor_TNVC
New member
About 30-40% better for Gen 1 in that frequency of light. Hope this helps.
Vic
Vic
family guy
New member
Originally Posted By: Victor_TNVCThought I would chime in here. Our Torch Pro reaches out to 800 yards and is the best in it's class for versatility. Folks can use any of the Surefire battle proven tape switches, clicky caps etc.
TorchPro's are good, they were my go to IR before I purchased a LLTL-001. The 001 appears to put about 3 times the light on target as a TP. The 001 is focusable, clearly visiable at 800 yards, comes with a clicky on/off tail cap (pressure switch is optional) and it was designed for rechargable 18650 batteries (also can run on 2 cr123's).
The 001 is also 1" shorter, 2oz lighter, and less $$.
TorchPro's are good, they were my go to IR before I purchased a LLTL-001. The 001 appears to put about 3 times the light on target as a TP. The 001 is focusable, clearly visiable at 800 yards, comes with a clicky on/off tail cap (pressure switch is optional) and it was designed for rechargable 18650 batteries (also can run on 2 cr123's).
The 001 is also 1" shorter, 2oz lighter, and less $$.
Mr. Poppadopalis
New member
Originally Posted By: family guyOriginally Posted By: Victor_TNVCThought I would chime in here. Our Torch Pro reaches out to 800 yards and is the best in it's class for versatility. Folks can use any of the Surefire battle proven tape switches, clicky caps etc.
TorchPro's are good, they were my go to IR before I purchased a LLTL-001. The 001 appears to put about 3 times the light on target as a TP. The 001 is focusable, clearly visiable at 800 yards, comes with a clicky on/off tail cap (pressure switch is optional) and it was designed for rechargable 18650 batteries (also can run on 2 cr123's).
The 001 is also 1" shorter, 2oz lighter, and less $$.
I don't own a Torch Pro but I can tell you that the LLTL-001 is far brighter than my IRK2.
I ordered my LLTL with the pressure pad switch and the nice feature about it is that you can click it on or push for quick light that does not stay on.
TorchPro's are good, they were my go to IR before I purchased a LLTL-001. The 001 appears to put about 3 times the light on target as a TP. The 001 is focusable, clearly visiable at 800 yards, comes with a clicky on/off tail cap (pressure switch is optional) and it was designed for rechargable 18650 batteries (also can run on 2 cr123's).
The 001 is also 1" shorter, 2oz lighter, and less $$.
I don't own a Torch Pro but I can tell you that the LLTL-001 is far brighter than my IRK2.
I ordered my LLTL with the pressure pad switch and the nice feature about it is that you can click it on or push for quick light that does not stay on.
Victor_TNVC
New member
One other point, we do NOT have our units made in China or Russia for that matter. Our original Torch was made in Russia, and we had larger and larger QA issues so we decided to do everything on our own, our customers deserved that with their hard earned dollar spent with us.
Our TNVC Torch Pro is now designed from us and we control everything, we are the OEM. Our lenses are made through our Schmidt and Bender engineers out of Germany and our housings and electronics here in the USA where they are assembled. We test, QA everything here and not rely on someone else.
As for these long distances, we think 800 yards is fantastic and especially a great amount of light shooting a typical predator at 200 yards or less. We've never had a complaint yet on our distance. We understand folks get hooked into a measuring contest of how far a light can travel for marketing reasons, cool for those who want that measuring contest. But much more goes into the Torch Pro and also with Surefire tape switch options along with using our Torch Pro as a stand alone head to go on Sufefire Body housings you may already own. The head option is only $199.00. http://tnvc.com/shop/torch-pro-infrared-illuminator-head-module/
We made the Torch Pro into one of the most versatile IR illuminators out there teamed with the likes of Surefire Accessories, the best US made battle proven components out there.
Vic
Our TNVC Torch Pro is now designed from us and we control everything, we are the OEM. Our lenses are made through our Schmidt and Bender engineers out of Germany and our housings and electronics here in the USA where they are assembled. We test, QA everything here and not rely on someone else.
As for these long distances, we think 800 yards is fantastic and especially a great amount of light shooting a typical predator at 200 yards or less. We've never had a complaint yet on our distance. We understand folks get hooked into a measuring contest of how far a light can travel for marketing reasons, cool for those who want that measuring contest. But much more goes into the Torch Pro and also with Surefire tape switch options along with using our Torch Pro as a stand alone head to go on Sufefire Body housings you may already own. The head option is only $199.00. http://tnvc.com/shop/torch-pro-infrared-illuminator-head-module/
We made the Torch Pro into one of the most versatile IR illuminators out there teamed with the likes of Surefire Accessories, the best US made battle proven components out there.
Vic
family guy
New member
Link to HTRN's webpage for the LLTL-001 (They are a sponsor here too)
http://www.hightechredneckincorporated.com/LED_Light_Technolgy_Labs_Model_LLTL_001_p/nva3155.htm
http://www.hightechredneckincorporated.com/LED_Light_Technolgy_Labs_Model_LLTL_001_p/nva3155.htm
Thanks for your input DFWroadkill. Its always good to hear an honest real-world assessment on these products.
One more thing about the UNV 20-IR . We offer a 2 year no-BS warranty. We are confident in the quality and durability of the 20-IR. If its broke, we fix it.
http://www.ultimatenightvision.com/-p/unv-20ir.htm
One more thing about the UNV 20-IR . We offer a 2 year no-BS warranty. We are confident in the quality and durability of the 20-IR. If its broke, we fix it.
http://www.ultimatenightvision.com/-p/unv-20ir.htm
the impactzone
New member
Ok I’ll bite, I own and use IRK2, eagle tac , 2 Torch-Pro’s and now two LLTL 0 and 01 from HTRN each has its pros and cons, and I use each on different systems from filming, helmet mounted for navigation foot and motorcycle with PVS14, mounted on 16” carbines to 26” bolt guns. I fit each to its application,
The one point no one has made about the TP and part of its versatility is the ability to mount a 3x magnifier on it. When done it increases the range and tightness of the beam tremendously, I used my TP to make a 410 yards shot on a coyote with a D760 without it and it would have been easier to make the ID had I had the 3x on it I regularly use this set on my 308 for long range practice and where I don’t want the light splashing off everything in between, I like having the surefire tape switch as I mount the TP as far forward as I can and from a prone position where it’s kind of hard to reach up to turn anything on. Would love to see what a 5x does on it, “maybe I could smell the bacon before the shot LOL the 3x beam is tight and really great for long range and is simple to screw on between sets when needed
The Eagle is on my helmet, The other TP is on 20” AR, the LLTL-0 will go on my 16”AR and the LLTL-01 will go on my camera as it has a great flood and plenty of power for filming.
The only thing I don’t like about the LLTL is the funky star head screws on the rings and base, I can live with it, as once its mounted its done, besides that is has a very good range between flood and spot and plenty of power, one other point in its favor is the LLTL-0 940nm has the lowest signature of any of my IRs yet capable of easy ID at 300 yards something I consider a big plus as most of the time I run the IR only when making the shot or ID as I have seen to many coyotes spook off the 850nm when I have turned it on to soon
Don’t have any experience with the UNV 20ir and don’t know how useful a dimmer would be in the field, maybe in a tactical environment inside building? I could see it being a plus
The IRK2 sits on a shelf while it still works
The one point no one has made about the TP and part of its versatility is the ability to mount a 3x magnifier on it. When done it increases the range and tightness of the beam tremendously, I used my TP to make a 410 yards shot on a coyote with a D760 without it and it would have been easier to make the ID had I had the 3x on it I regularly use this set on my 308 for long range practice and where I don’t want the light splashing off everything in between, I like having the surefire tape switch as I mount the TP as far forward as I can and from a prone position where it’s kind of hard to reach up to turn anything on. Would love to see what a 5x does on it, “maybe I could smell the bacon before the shot LOL the 3x beam is tight and really great for long range and is simple to screw on between sets when needed
The Eagle is on my helmet, The other TP is on 20” AR, the LLTL-0 will go on my 16”AR and the LLTL-01 will go on my camera as it has a great flood and plenty of power for filming.
The only thing I don’t like about the LLTL is the funky star head screws on the rings and base, I can live with it, as once its mounted its done, besides that is has a very good range between flood and spot and plenty of power, one other point in its favor is the LLTL-0 940nm has the lowest signature of any of my IRs yet capable of easy ID at 300 yards something I consider a big plus as most of the time I run the IR only when making the shot or ID as I have seen to many coyotes spook off the 850nm when I have turned it on to soon
Don’t have any experience with the UNV 20ir and don’t know how useful a dimmer would be in the field, maybe in a tactical environment inside building? I could see it being a plus
The IRK2 sits on a shelf while it still works
Hello all, I want to thank everyone for all the great advice and info on night vision and equipment. I sent my CounterSniper Starfighter Gen2A back to OpticsPlanet. I explained that I couldn't identify anything past 60 or 70yds.. Maybe the difference between a deer or pig but not a fox or big house cat. Well, I could tell but only because I just know. There was also a faint cloudy or smokey area vertically right up the center of the screen. Not very wide but still visible. I think maybe the LLTL-001 was to much .I don't know it[scope] just didn't stand up to what I've seen from a Gen2. I got to tell everyone that OpticsPlanet gave me a 100% refund no questions or problems at all. I couldn't have expected better service from anyplace. I also see that they no longer offer this scope at all!! Thanks again OpticsPlanet.
Should IR illuminators of different nm.s be used at the same time on the same target with the same scope????
Should IR illuminators of different nm.s be used at the same time on the same target with the same scope????
Last edited:
DFWRoadkill
New member
Originally Posted By: Snorh Should IR illuminators of different nm.s be used at the same time on the same target with the same scope????
I usually notice a grainy effect if I try that...and there really isn't a reason to do it...
I usually notice a grainy effect if I try that...and there really isn't a reason to do it...
Victor_TNVC
New member
Yes I should have pointed out the Torch Pro has also designed for a 3x magnifier with its threaded lens and will allow the bragging rights out to 1200 yards and not very expensive adapter with DFW is professing. I see where this is going... Just a measuring contest at this point. I see what this is about and where he's from. :-(
No one has EVER lost a tail cap, EVER. User error taking the cap off all the way like you did and it never needs to screw anywhere close to the end to power off the light, ever. In fact Surefire lights, the largest selling light in the world designs so many of their lights with this tail cap feature and never seen all the claims with folks losing their caps with Surefire lights as well.
As for rechargeables, yes we do not recommend them ad we have seen way too many instances of these blowing in severe warm weather. The Torch Pro has a 10 hour battery life so not sure how that is going to be so expensive to change batts? We also recommend no rechards in NV products but some still use them and we see the consequences of these expensive devices.
For the other posts, we also have a NO BS Warranty and we have an under 1% return rate at that on the Torch Pro. We have served thousands and never BS'd about any of warranties since 2004 when TNVC started. I think there is thread here about Impact Zone scope tube going down after it's so-called warranty expired. You might want to take a look at that thread.
I personally would never ever let a customer hang out to dry on a purchase from us. Never have, never will as long as I am living and breathing with TNVC, so no BS here. ;-)
No one has EVER lost a tail cap, EVER. User error taking the cap off all the way like you did and it never needs to screw anywhere close to the end to power off the light, ever. In fact Surefire lights, the largest selling light in the world designs so many of their lights with this tail cap feature and never seen all the claims with folks losing their caps with Surefire lights as well.
As for rechargeables, yes we do not recommend them ad we have seen way too many instances of these blowing in severe warm weather. The Torch Pro has a 10 hour battery life so not sure how that is going to be so expensive to change batts? We also recommend no rechards in NV products but some still use them and we see the consequences of these expensive devices.
For the other posts, we also have a NO BS Warranty and we have an under 1% return rate at that on the Torch Pro. We have served thousands and never BS'd about any of warranties since 2004 when TNVC started. I think there is thread here about Impact Zone scope tube going down after it's so-called warranty expired. You might want to take a look at that thread.
I personally would never ever let a customer hang out to dry on a purchase from us. Never have, never will as long as I am living and breathing with TNVC, so no BS here. ;-)
Vic, I asked a ??? and DFWRoadKill answered with his experience and opinion. I didn't read anything about your product in that statement. As for OpticsPlanet, I commend them for standing behind their warrenty and giving me a 100% refund on a product that was not worth 2 cents. I'm sure you stand behind your products 100% also. I ment you no il nor do I think Roadkill did either. Please reply!
Snorh
Snorh
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