You can have your national forest back

bluealtered

New member
Congressman Greg Walden (R-OR-2nd district) introduced a bill, (H.R.4272) that forbids the forest service to close any road or portion of a road in any national forest in the west without the consent of the counties that the national forest is in.

This means that they must reopen all the roads in your national forest and then submit to the counties there what roads they want to close and why, the decision to close or not close those roads will then be up to the counties not the forest service.

For those of you in the midwest and east, most of the national forests of the west have bewteen 50-90% gated,locked or blocked roads. If you live in an area that has locked up grasslands or desert, there is no reason why this bill can't be changed to include your area as well. It simply needs to be amended to include blm land as well.

For this bill to pass you must contact your senator, congressman/woman and have them sign on to H.R.4272. This is your chance to regain one of your American rights that has been taken from you and your loved ones.
 
Thanks for the heads up. Growing up in the west it is amazing how much public land drive in access has been lost over the years. Public land should be accessible. I will contact my representatives.
 
wont pass and even if it does it wont change the regulations. Opening up roads wont make things better. The prob we face is
1. too many people using public land
and
2. too many of those people are idiots that screw it up for everyone by trashing stuff, driving off road etc.

its far easier to close an area to vehicles than to regulate for idiots
 
to many liberals that close the roads,i think there are still more good people that use those roads than there are bad.they have closed roads here in the west that just help private land owners no other reason
 
I'm not sure if it's the "liberals who close roads" or closing roads is "easier than regulating idiots". What I do know is that for all of us who are ready and willing to pack in and pack out of gated areas, closed roads are welcomed; in fact I hope they close every gate they can.

Everyone has a right to access designated National Lands; however, this doesn't necessarily mean that everybody has a right to DRIVE into those areas. If you're willing to do the work getting in and getting out, then you should welcome closed gates; that way you wouldn't have to deal with "too many people using public lands". Your competition would go down 20 fold. Eliminating the road hunters also decreases "idiots that screw it up for everyone by trashing stuff, driving off road etc."

My main point; closed roads = less competition. The odds are stacked in the favor of people who work hard for the quarry rather than the guys who put their beer on the dashboard so they can shoot and cripple an animal from their truck window. Since I'm one of the first type described, I like those odds. . .
 
Originally Posted By: BUXH8MEI'm not sure if it's the "liberals who close roads" or closing roads is "easier than regulating idiots". What I do know is that for all of us who are ready and willing to pack in and pack out of gated areas, closed roads are welcomed; in fact I hope they close every gate they can.

Everyone has a right to access designated National Lands; however, this doesn't necessarily mean that everybody has a right to DRIVE into those areas. If you're willing to do the work getting in and getting out, then you should welcome closed gates; that way you wouldn't have to deal with "too many people using public lands". Your competition would go down 20 fold. Eliminating the road hunters also decreases "idiots that screw it up for everyone by trashing stuff, driving off road etc."

My main point; closed roads = less competition. The odds are stacked in the favor of people who work hard for the quarry rather than the guys who put their beer on the dashboard so they can shoot and cripple an animal from their truck window. Since I'm one of the first type described, I like those odds. . .

I have to agree I don't know how many times I've heard some of the idiots around here say they have tvs furniture computers ext. That gets taken out shot to bits and left there. it definitely deters the lazy idiots if they have to pack things in although there is some determined one's who do it anyways
 
Dems and repubs are both worthless. Here they voted to not even allow any new parks at all. Of course this is written by a worthless lib. But the point is both parties have been taken over by special interests.


House Republicans prove hatred of America with 'No More Parks' bill
by Joan McCarter Mar 26, 2014 1:58pm PDT
The House voted today to undo what they can of President Teddy Roosevelt's legacy. They voted to pass the "Ensuring Public Involvement in the Creation of National Monuments Act," their effort to make sure that no more land worth saving from mining, drilling, logging or fracking is indeed saved through executive action. It passed, of course, 222-201, but is unlikely to advance in the Senate, which is reason number infinity why we need the Senate.
Back in 1906, Roosevelt signed the Antiquities Act, which gives the president the power to designate significant cultural, historical or ecological sites—which are already public land—as monuments. Since then, 16 presidents (evenly divided by part) have protected sites like the Grand Canyon, Acadia, Muir Woods and Olympic national parks through the monument designation. These places eventually became national parks through congressional action, but were preserved thanks to the Antiquities Act.

They didn't do this just because they hate protected public land. They also did it because they hate the fact that President Obama has the power—which every president before him since Teddy Roosevelt has had—to designate protected land without giving them the opportunity to derail his efforts. Of course, why they say they're doing it is because the president can act unilaterally, without public input, and because of the terrible economic impact these protected lands have.

Both of which are [beeep]. The public loves national parks and monuments and thinks it's government's job to protect public land, to the tune of almost 90 percent of likely voters (as of this 2012 poll).

Nearly 90 percent of voters think that candidates who prioritize national parks are seen as caring about the environment, protecting our heritage for the future, patriotic, and a good steward of our nation’s resources. And as the National Park Service approaches its centennial in 2016, a majority of likely voters (77 percent) say it is important for the next president to ensure that parks are fully restored and ready to serve and be relevant to future generations in their second century.
The economic impact of national parks was felt as recently as last fall, when the Republican House shut them down. The communities around the parks lost $414 million in just 16 days. Every dollar invested in a national park, the National Park Service has found, comes back to the community 10-fold. A study released earlier this month by the NPS found that visits to parks in 2012 generated $14.7 billion in spending in “gateway” communities, those within 60 miles of a park. All that money spent by park visitors supported 243,000 jobs and contributed $26.8 billion to the national economy.
Once again, the Republican House wasted time on a bill that is diametrically opposed to the will of the public. Once again, they wasted time on a bill that will not even get a hearing in the Senate. And once again they proved that they really do hate America.
 
Originally Posted By: phutch30wont pass and even if it does it wont change the regulations. Opening up roads wont make things better. The prob we face is
1. too many people using public land
and
2. too many of those people are idiots that screw it up for everyone by trashing stuff, driving off road etc.

its far easier to close an area to vehicles than to regulate for idiots

You hit it right on with that statement. I spend a lot of time on public land and see that exact problem all the time. Even if there is a road, someone must always drive off it and make their own road. All because they are to lazy to walk.
 
What an interesting representation of current America, one person who even though it probably won't change anything in his area, is willing to spend five minutes to help other Americans regain one of their rights to freedom of movement.
Five members who believe it's better for them with it locked up so who cares about the rest of their countrymen and women or children who can't pack it in and out, but of course everybody in America is an idiot but them anyway right? This is what you just stated.

Try taking just a moment and clear your head if you can. The only reason you can publicly say the heck with everybody else is because someone before you gave service to our country so you would have the right to do so.

Inspite of your thinking it's all about you, it isn't it's all about US, everybody here in America. What about our service men and women who are coming home and need a place to go and help themselves try to adjust to what they have gone through? How much more do they have to go through to make you happy?

In case you haven't been watching, a lot of our warriors can't just walk beyond the locked gates to some place quiet to sort things out. What about the Americans with disabilities? What about all the men womem and children who want to learn about nature but can't walk past a locked gate? According to you it's just to Darn bad. Whether you contact your senator or congress person is up to you, this is your right as a American. Now you have my opinion.



 
Originally Posted By: bluealteredWhat an interesting representation of current America, one person who even though it probably won't change anything in his area, is willing to spend five minutes to help other Americans regain one of their rights to freedom of movement.
Five members who believe it's better for them with it locked up so who cares about the rest of their countrymen and women or children who can't pack it in and out, but of course everybody in America is an idiot but them anyway right? This is what you just stated?


You must be reading more than I am because I dont really see where five people here have said they believe it is better to for it to be locked. What I see is people pointing out what the problem is and why they get closed. I could almost interpret what you say into that you believe it is ok to leave the trash and drive any where you want including making your own roads. Is that a correct translation of your statement.
 
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And to enlighten you. There’s is no "right" to freedom of movement that applies to vehicle access to public lands. People thinking they have the "right" to do whatever they want on public lands is why we even have this thread. I deal with it every single day.
There are generally main two reasons we lose current access (theres others but these are the big two around here)
1. a private landowner shuts down access thru private to public
and
2. a small percentage of the "public" screw it up for everyone else.

I work for the BLM as a fisheries biologist, but deal with access issues peripherally. We have to (for many reasons) manage for the lowest denominator i.e. idiots. If everyone was a law abiding citizen who followed the rules there would be very little problem. Aint the case though.

THEN

You also have to try to please everyone. You have hikers, horse backers, off road enthusiasts, wilderness enthusiasts etc. etc. I promise if you throw them together and try get consensus you won’t.

THEN

You also have wilderness regulations, wilderness study regulations, T & E species considerations etc. etc.

So don’t think people are closing areas for fun, It’s not fun getting there in any shape size or form.
 
Originally Posted By: bluealtered

Try taking just a moment and clear your head if you can. The only reason you can publicly say screw everybody else is because someone before you gave service to our country so you would have the right to do so.

Inspite of your thinking it's all about you, it isn't it's all about US, everybody here in America. What about our service men and women who are coming home and need a place to go and help themselves try to adjust to what they have gone through? How much more do they have to go through to make you happy?



Using vets and injured vets to justify your want to drive everywhere is sad. There are still plenty of areas you can drive and there are permits in many areas that allow disabled people driving access to restricted areas. Coming from north Idaho where there is a jammer road every 600 feet on the slope and everybody and their brother hunts from the back of an ATV regardless of whether the roads are closed or not, a few gates are a welcomed site. You do have access to the forest, sometimes you just have to get out of your rig.
 
If the government feels that they have to govern to the lowest common denominator, we are all in trouble.

Maybe they should close the township road through my property as some only use it to dump trash from or sometimes people road hunt along it?

Maybe they should close access on public waters due to idiots who leave garbage and trash on the ice or waters?

I'm all for walk in areas but the simple fact is that some are unable and some are unwilling but both have a right to use public land how they see fit with in the frame work of the law. Those who chose to break the law are the reason we spend a considerable amount on law enforcement.

Limiting access is the start with the end being total loss of use.

Tim
 
Originally Posted By: bluealteredWhat an interesting representation of current America, one person who even though it probably won't change anything in his area, is willing to spend five minutes to help other Americans regain one of their rights to freedom of movement.
Five members who believe it's better for them with it locked up so who cares about the rest of their countrymen and women or children who can't pack it in and out, but of course everybody in America is an idiot but them anyway right? This is what you just stated.

Try taking just a moment and clear your head if you can. The only reason you can publicly say screw everybody else is because someone before you gave service to our country so you would have the right to do so.

Inspite of your thinking it's all about you, it isn't it's all about US, everybody here in America. What about our service men and women who are coming home and need a place to go and help themselves try to adjust to what they have gone through? How much more do they have to go through to make you happy?

In case you haven't been watching, a lot of our warriors can't just walk beyond the locked gates to some place quiet to sort things out. What about the Americans with disabilities? What about all the men womem and children who want to learn about nature but can't walk past a locked gate? According to you it's just to Da*m bad. Whether you contact your senator or congress person is up to you, this is your right as a American. Now you have my opinion.





the only limitations and disabilities in life is a bad attutude. I know there are ddisabled people and vets who ddspite the injuries they have do more and accomplish more in life than some people who have full use of their bodies. As far as kids go, I take my kids hiking on private as well as public lands and there's not much we can't haul in in a pack for the day. Sounds to me like your looking for the easy way in and out using the disabled the young and our vets as a stepping stone for your own personal gain. Now you have my opinion
 
With little exception the roads on federal land were built for logging and mineral extraction in the first place, not public access...that's what hiking trails were built for, literally. Dollars from logging and mining paid for the construction and maintenance of these roads and now with the absence of these activities (which I don't agree with) there is no money to maintain the infrastructure. So keeping people from driving on and destroying the roads is the only answer. Just because the road is there doesn't mean you have a right to drive on it. You can still hike on all of the closed roads, why do you feel like you need to drive everywhere?
 
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Ok lets start with, where in anything i have written do i say anybody has the right to tear up or drive any place they want to? Well where? You can't find it because i never said that. You said that. What i have stated is very simple: if you want access to your national forest again, heres the chance to get back something that is your birthright as an Ameican.

As for no right to public road access in the national forest, sorry thats B.S. It was in this area when i was logging called a road assesment tax, and that meant that you built to grade the roads needed to complete your logging contract and then when the job was done you went back over them and brought them back up to grade which is 100% compaction and graveled, for Public Use. Yes public use. It was written in the contract.

Don't tell me i'm using our vets, i have neighbors who have come home from war and needed our national forest to help them readjust to fit in again.

I have been disabled for the last 15 years and know first hand what disabled people can and can not do, yes your darn right it's a matter of attitude as to what i can do, my attitude gets me through every day. My last back operation was 7 weeks ago and i'm now hunting. And yes theres a lot of Americans a whole lot worse off than me.

Don't tell me theres places for disabled Americans to go, why can't they go to the same places that those roads were built for in the first place?

As for the idiots that are doing the damage, that can be corrected as well. When i see someone tearing up the forest i get a pic of the license and turn it in, if you aren't willing to do the same you have nothing to say.
I am tired of seeing the forest torn up and i am willing to change it, not say,... oh, i can't do any thing about it so just lock it. Thats B.S. and the lazy way out.
 
This is an interesting and worthwhile debate with legitimate arguments on either side. It doesn't change my opinion however that closing roads is a good thing not only for those people willing to work hard but also for overall health of natural lands (for many reasons previously mentioned).

I can see the legitimacy of the disabled hunter (for the sake of sounding insensitive being a veteran or not is irrelevant to this topic; servicemen and women obviously and thanklessly fight to protect our rights but they do not to fight specifically for the right to DRIVE on publicly protected lands in which the roads were not even designed or built for public use). argument in that some folks simply aren't capable of dealing with the rigors of rugged country. Over the years I guided both kids and disabled folks on deer, turkey, and coyote hunts. Some of which had prosthetic limbs. Even with a permit allowing them to shoot from a vehicle or have a designated individual shoot the animal for them, none chose to do so. They worked their tails off and harvested their animals the old fashioned way through persistence and the right frame of mind. They wouldn't need an open gate on a forest service road to fill their tag.

For years hunters and other outdoor enthusiasts have been given the privilege of driving into public lands on roads that weren't made for them in the first place, to access areas that would otherwise be difficult to get to. Now it's being considered to close those roads and people start moaning about their "right" to use those roads. Nobody is denying anyone access to national forests just access by VEHICLE.

In my opinion the only thing that could have possibly done different was to ask for public opinion a little more than it appears they did. I suspect many more people would support closing roads than those who want gates left open. Political stances have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Claiming that liberal democrats are responsible for closing roads is absurd and is a red herring. I'm a staunch conservative bordering on libertarian. So are my circle of friends and I know they would make the same argument as me; close every road and lock every gate.
 
Originally Posted By: bluealteredOk lets start with, where in anything i have written do i say anybody has the right to tear up or drive any place they want to? Well where? You can't find it because i never said that. You said that. What i have stated is very simple: if you want access to your national forest again, heres the chance to get back something that is your birthright as an Ameican.

As for no right to public road access in the national forest, sorry thats B.S. It was in this area when i was logging called a road assesment tax, and that meant that you built to grade the roads needed to complete your logging contract and then when the job was done you went back over them and brought them back up to grade which is 100% compaction and graveled, for Public Use. Yes public use. It was written in the contract.

Don't tell me i'm using our vets, i have neighbors who have come home from war and needed our national forest to help them readjust to fit in again.

I have been disabled for the last 15 years and know first hand what disabled people can and can not do, yes your dam right it's a matter of attitude as to what i can do, my attitude gets me through every day. My last back operation was 7 weeks ago and i'm now hunting. And yes theres a lot of Americans a whole lot worse off than me.

Don't tell me theres places for disabled Americans to go, why can't they go to the same places that those roads were built for in the first place?

As for the idiots that are doing the damage, that can be corrected as well. When i see someone tearing up the forest i get a pic of the license and turn it in, if you aren't willing to do the same you have nothing to say.
I am tired of seeing the forest torn up and i am willing to change it, not say,... oh, i can't do any thing about it so just lock it. Thats B.S. and the lazy way out.

Sorry sir, but you're wrong. A VAST majority of the forest roads were NOT built with public access in mind. Driving on forest roads is not a birthright for anyone and it degrades the standing of our actual God given rights for people to try and make them equivalent. The trail systems, however, were built with public access in mind and are maintained for exactly that purpose. For most of it's history the Forest Service roads were built and maintained for natural resource extraction and fighting fires to protect those natural resources, public access was simply a benefit, not the intention.

I'm a forest engineer by education and trade and simply using the roads in the wrong conditions degrades them to the point of failure. When I was a road construction foreman for a private timber company we required all of our roads to have a final grading after the logging was done as well, but not for subsequent travelers but because the drainage features of roads are optimized when the road is left in the best shape possible. And of course there are closed areas that allow disabled folks access with permits, that's not even disputable. The National Forests are still there and still open to everyone. Vet or not, nobody is being denied access.

As far as turning people in, that's great but it doesn't pay to fix the road. Countless times I had weekend warriors spinning donuts in my freshly bladed roads on ATV's. Road work is expensive, you can't have a grader on standby to rush out every time someone screws up a road. Even though all our land was private and mostly gated we welcomed the public to walk in, hunt, fish, and recreate and even then there were still people who believed it their "right" to drive on our roads.
 
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bluealtered said:
Ok lets start with, where in anything i have written do i say anybody has the right to tear up or drive any place they want to? Well where? You can't find it because i never said that.

Funny how you don't like words being put in your mouth but have no problems putting them in others

"Five members who believe it's better for them with it locked up so who cares about the rest of their countrymen and women or children who can't pack it in and out, but of course everybody in America is an idiot but them anyway right? This is what you just stated."

IF you desire you have YOUR "birthright as an American citizen" to apply for special usepermit .No one here is objecting against access for the disabled or veterans. We are trying to ensure that we don't lose walk in access because of the irresponsible few. The good guys aren't always around to report or.help catch the bad guys. And as far as kids go (mine included) a little work effort and exercise will only do them good.
 
Thank you for posting this bluealtered. I agree with what your saying and I'm very surprised to see the backlash from other members on this thread. I will be contacting my representatives!
 
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