howa hogue 223 twist rate

You have a very good rifle. I bought mine at a gun show for $200. After I got it back to the shop I thoroughly checked it out. I bought a jewel. The Howa 1500 was selected by Weatherby many years ago to produce some of their rifles. Howa's are made in Japan. The Machine work is awesome. Fit and finish on steel is as good as it gets. The only difference between a true Weatherby and the Howa made for Weatherby is the bolt cap. Weatherby uses their stocks. The Howa plastic stocks are..... Cheap and worthless. When I picked it up and cycled the action it was smooth tight and just plain seemed like a very high end rifle. It is no wonder Weatherby puts their name on some. Completely disassembled and a few critical dimension checks and I’m a believer. These are very, very nice barreled actions. Howa button rifles themselves. It is their barrel. The action is metric so watch out on barrel swaps. The only reason to change its barrel is if you shot it out or, you want to change caliber. A very good match grade barrel. The.223 varmint barrel is the wrong twist. It is indeed 1 in 12 and holds it from end to end. Very nice varmint weight barrel.
So why did I get it so cheap? My first comment to the seller was "oh this is one of those Japanese rifles". The Seller looked right at me and said "ya and it shoots like it". It wouldn't shoot and he didn't know what to do because it was made in Japan and imported by Legacy (all true). However, as I looked it over the Scope bases were on backwards. I never use a two piece and that's what he had. Close examination revealed a small horizontal scratch right where the scope had been hitting it up front.
The twist is a problem on the .223. At 1 in 12 a 40gr jacketed lead bullet barely stabilizes. It got a new McMillan stock, pillar bedded, barrel floated and the trigger (all steel and adjustable) was set at 6 lbs. so that became a nice breaking 2 lbs.. 3 inch bench rest 100yrd. Groups shrunk to 1 1/2 inch 5 shot groups! Nice but something was still wrong. This was one fine gun at this point. I learned long ago that all my customers hated that "standard military" .223 M16 twist. But don't stop. Hornady makes a .223 blunt nose 35 grain VMax with a flat base. Ta Da! 1/2" any day at 100yrds. M.O.A. all the way to 400 yards. Indeed a fine rifle. However you are going to have to use the lightest bullets you can find. That does limit your game choices but as a varmint rifle... deadly. The secret is getting out. I would gladly pay $400 for a Howa any day. Hope this helps you. When you shoot .223 it is VERY sensitive to twist. It is not unusual for .223's to be a bit finicky. It has long bullet choices for short diameter to length bullets. I have a custom ar15 heavy barrel with a 1 in 9 twist. It blows the groups up if you go one grain over a 60 grain VMax. My brothers is a 1 in 8. It loves the 60 grn and will shoot up to a 70 grn. You did great. The stock and trigger should be taken care of (a Hogue is good pi and it will definitely shoot. Don't change that trigger! Adjust it. It is very well made and all steel.
 
I just picked up a new howa. Theres a new store in vegas and they had this thing marked wrong at $100 cheaper so me being ocd i had to buy it. Havent shot it yet. For now i put the nikko stirling on it that it came with. Was curious if this will also shoot the 556?
 
I just traded my Howa Varmint to a buddy. It loved the 40gr V-max. Shot them into a very very small ragged hole at 100yds. After a trigger job, it was a lazer. Actually was before but the trigger job made it better.
 
Originally Posted By: who meA 40gr bullet barely stabilizes in a 1/12 twist?

I learn something new today.

Yeah, me too. Have to call BS on this one. A 1/12" or 1/14" twist is almost ideal for a 40 grain pill. I know that my 1/12" CZ just adores 40 grain bullets. And it likes 50 and 55 grain slugs as well.
 
Originally Posted By: bmorgil
The twist is a problem on the .223. At 1 in 12 a 40gr jacketed lead bullet barely stabilizes........However you are going to have to use the lightest bullets you can find.............When you shoot .223 it is VERY sensitive to twist. It is not unusual for .223's to be a bit finicky.


You have some real strange ideas. This is complete BS.
 
Originally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: bmorgil
The twist is a problem on the .223. At 1 in 12 a 40gr jacketed lead bullet barely stabilizes........However you are going to have to use the lightest bullets you can find.............When you shoot .223 it is VERY sensitive to twist. It is not unusual for .223's to be a bit finicky.


You have some real strange ideas. This is complete BS.

How do you figure knuckle head? I got your BS right here. Sounds like you boys need to learn to read. Did I say the 40grn wouldn't shoot? Let me help you... I said up to the 40grn and I stated the 40grn grouped well. Anyone who has shot high power at Camp Perry will tell you when the 5.56 started punching paper there. The long bullets 70 or 80 grain match needs a 1 in 7 to 1 and 8. 1 in 9 works well up to 60grn. [beeep] F---- you [beeep]. I would put good money I have shot and built and fixed more rifles than you could pronounce with your [beeep] for a mouth. Both of you. Takes a lot of guts to spout off when you’re as clueless as you are. 50 years of shooting at Perry (I live right next door) and fixing guns makes the information a nice pass along for the real people who need help. What a bunch of asses you are.
[beeep]? Really. Why don't you just get out your calculator and figure it out yourself you idiot. Ya that’s right idiot, you can calculate it. You have to have a bit of knowledge but, since your such an expert I am sure you have the general bullet shape and bearing surface memorized for the math. Idiot!
 
Quote: At 1 in 12 a 40gr jacketed lead bullet barely stabilizes. ...That's funny, right there...I have a 1/12 Rem 700 that handles any bullet weight from 40-60 in little bitty groups at 200 yards and had a 1/14 AR upper built that really shined with 40-55gr bullets and the 40s were pumped up to almost a .204 speed...
Quote:When you shoot .223 it is VERY sensitive to twist. It is not unusual for .223's to be a bit finicky
I have two 1/9 twists that will shoot 40-68gr with accuracy all day long and have done it with one in several 3-gun matches as well as decimating some Prairie Dogs at 300 yards...

You need to get better batteries in your calculator or get a new one...
 
Just cuz you been doing something for 50 years, it doesn't mean you are doing it right. Claiming that a 1-12 won't stabilize a 40 grain bullet is crazy talk. You are going against reams of data that shows otherwise. You probably also swear you can't shoot a 5.56 in a .223 too. Years of doing the wrong thing, and the location of your living quarters does not make an expert.
 
I have a Weatherby Predator (discontinued model) made by Howa in 223 with the 1 in 12 twist. It shoots 50 and 55 grain bullets into less than an inch groups at a 100 yard all day long. Actually seems to prefer them over the 40 grain bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: SnaggltoofJust cuz you been doing something for 50 years, it doesn't mean you are doing it right. Claiming that a 1-12 won't stabilize a 40 grain bullet is crazy talk. You are going against reams of data that shows otherwise. You probably also swear you can't shoot a 5.56 in a .223 too. Years of doing the wrong thing, and the location of your living quarters does not make an expert.

This makes me think of the two guys talking and the one guys says "hey, I've got 30 years experience on this." The other guys says "no, you have 6 months experience, 60 times."
 
The current Howa .223 is 1-12" twist. I just bought my wife one for Xmas. It will indeed handle 50gr bullets nicely, as the .681" and .518" groups my wife shot last weekend will atest to. The Howa is indeed a fine rifle, fit and finish is great, and my wife's gun cleans up just as easy as my $300 PacNor SS match barrel.
Now if a 1-12" twist is gonna be finicky with 40gr bullets in a .223, why did my old .223 with a 1-15" twist Hart barrel shoot 50gr bullets of several types and Mfg into groups consistently under 1/2" and some into the .230" range? And before ya start spouting about long range instability, I killed lots of prairie dogs with that gun at over 500yds. My dad also has a .223 with a 1-14" twist that shoots as good or better than mine did with 50gr bullets, and has killed even more prairie dogs at 500+ yds.

How does that figure into your calculations?
 
Originally Posted By: bmorgilOriginally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: bmorgil
The twist is a problem on the .223. At 1 in 12 a 40gr jacketed lead bullet barely stabilizes........However you are going to have to use the lightest bullets you can find.............When you shoot .223 it is VERY sensitive to twist. It is not unusual for .223's to be a bit finicky.


You have some real strange ideas. This is complete BS.

How do you figure knuckle head? I got your BS right here. Sounds like you boys need to learn to read. Did I say the 40grn wouldn't shoot? Let me help you... I said up to the 40grn and I stated the 40grn grouped well. Anyone who has shot high power at Camp Perry will tell you when the 5.56 started punching paper there. The long bullets 70 or 80 grain match needs a 1 in 7 to 1 and 8. 1 in 9 works well up to 60grn. [beeep] F---- you [beeep]. I would put good money I have shot and built and fixed more rifles than you could pronounce with your [beeep] for a mouth. Both of you. Takes a lot of guts to spout off when you’re as clueless as you are. 50 years of shooting at Perry (I live right next door) and fixing guns makes the information a nice pass along for the real people who need help. What a bunch of asses you are.
[beeep]? Really. Why don't you just get out your calculator and figure it out yourself you idiot. Ya that’s right idiot, you can calculate it. You have to have a bit of knowledge but, since your such an expert I am sure you have the general bullet shape and bearing surface memorized for the math. Idiot!


That's some funny stuff....guy's an idiot and an a$$hole. Mr bmorgil with 2 posts. Get lost.
 
Yeppers!!!

1-12 will handle all bullets from 40g-60g + the 64g Nosler Bonded, 63g Sierra, 64g Winchester

Someone got their wires crossed. 1-16 twist will only handle 40g bullets and some 45g Semi pointed bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: VarmintnvThe current Howa .223 is 1-12" twist. I just bought my wife one for Xmas. It will indeed handle 50gr bullets nicely, as the .681" and .518" groups my wife shot last weekend will atest to. The Howa is indeed a fine rifle, fit and finish is great, and my wife's gun cleans up just as easy as my $300 PacNor SS match barrel.
Now if a 1-12" twist is gonna be finicky with 40gr bullets in a .223, why did my old .223 with a 1-15" twist Hart barrel shoot 50gr bullets of several types and Mfg into groups consistently under 1/2" and some into the .230" range? And before ya start spouting about long range instability, I killed lots of prairie dogs with that gun at over 500yds. My dad also has a .223 with a 1-14" twist that shoots as good or better than mine did with 50gr bullets, and has killed even more prairie dogs at 500+ yds.

How does that figure into your calculations?


Fits like you are a very lucky guy! http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php Probably best if you do your own calculations. I wouldn't jump on the phone and tell Berger that his calcs are no good however. There are always exceptions to the rule. My Howa agrees with the calculation. This is the latest refinement for the calculations from Berger. I have yet to have it not give me accurate results and, it has helped me produce many sub M.O.A. rifles for others.
 
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