Do I really need an AO scope?

Savage cat

Savage cat

New member
I just started to turn my savage 223 into a 243 and I'm only going to use the gun for coyotes and deer. Most of the shots will be closer but I've got the option to get some longer shots. So here's the question, if I don't have an AO scope will it cause me to miss a coyote at 300-500. Not saying I'm going to be shooting a lot at that range but I have a lot of chickens and there are coyotes that hang out around the house and down in the field, I've had them down in the waterway and I've ranged it before and it 550 from my barn. So here is another question, would I benefit from a 4.5x14 or would a 3x9 get me by? As far as reticles go I would just assume have a duplex reticle over one of the varmit reticles and stuff. For me there is just to much going on in there at the heat of the moment, I just like to know where my gun shoots so if a dog hangs up or so I like to know to put the reticle at the top of the back or use the point of the bottom post. I will be looking at the leupold vxll or the vxlll, I have searched this but I haven't found exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the input!
 

For closer range deer hunting, you don't need an A/O scope, though parallax issues exists from one range to another. It's just not as critical at shorter ranges. Lower magnification is all you need, and in some instances may be even better. Same for coyotes. For closer range coyote hunting, you don't need an A/O scope either.

A deer is a large bodied animal, thereby being more forgiving of precision. However, once you get on out there, such as you suggested at 300-500 yards, things really change. Parallax is a real issue and can make the difference between a hit or miss, or a wounded animal. Coyotes are even smaller targets, making it more difficult to connect with a killing shot at longer ranges.

Taking both deer and coyotes from close ranges to extended ranges, with a scope that does not have A/O, is asking a lot of the scope.

When calling coyotes, they can suddenly appear right on top of you, or they can hang up 300 yards away. Many times you don't have an opportunity to correct for parallax, but it's nice to have it when you need it. That 300 yard coyote that's just sitting there, looking the situation over, might give you a chance to range him and make necessary adjustments. Precision shooting is what we are talking about in this case. A hard-charger doesn't allow time for scope adjustments, but generally they are close targets, making parallax less of an issue.

As to scope magnification, the 3x9 is the all-around basic deer hunting scope. For eastern deer hunters, it's probably the most purchased scope of any. That is a fine choice for such shooting, such as timbered and thick areas, to open fields. But, when you get to ranges like you are talking, even a 9X just won't cut it, especially for coyotes. It's difficult at best to place a bullet where you need it to go, even for deer, at ranges of 550 yards.

Pertaining to scope reticles, my opinion is the more "clutter" you have in a reticle, the less valuable it becomes in the heat of the moment. I'm thinking coyote hunting here. But, for precision shooting at extended ranges, when you have time to "think" and consider the shot, then the extra reticles (varmint) or aiming points "might" be worth having.

Whichever scope you choose, you need to put it to use in the field. Learn the trajectory of your particular rifle and load, where the bullet hits at various distances. Even the scope with the varmint reticles are just good theories on paper. You need to find out what YOUR load does and where the bullet impacts at various ranges.

If you are needing to make one rifle do it all for both coyotes and deer, at the ranges you mentioned, then my vote is to go with a scope that has parallax adjustment. When hunting, set the parallax to a distance of where you expect the coyote or deer to most likely appear at. Generally speaking, you will have more time to make scope / parallax correction on deer than you will on coyotes.

For me personally, for the various types of hunting and distances you described, I would go with the 4.5X14 with an A/O. That combination would give you a lot of options.

The Leupold VX-3 is a fine scope.

 
Every AO scope I use for hunting is set to infinity for the hunt. You never know the range ahead of time and is just one more thing to fiddle in the field.

Load development and practice though I always adjust the AO to range. Just the way I do it.

If you are talking mid to longer range shooting an AO is the way to go.
 
There's a difference between the older VX II and VX III and the newer VX 2 and VX 3. The later has been refined, better glass, coatings and more options.

Certainly a scope with a higher magnification and AO or side focus will bring better results on longer range targets.
 
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Best way to answer your question is to describe what highpower silhouette shooters do and that's to sight in at 200 meters and then click the elevation values as the ranges increase. For the most accuracy and precision an AO capability is used. The max range in that game is 500 meters which is close to what your max will be.
Now to the real world of hunting in your case. Hold over at 500 will probably not work. On average a shot at 500 meters requires an adjustment of 11 MOA plus or minus with a 200 meter zero. So what you need is the ability to range quickly and adjust your setting for that long shot. AO feature would help in that situation if you can depend on it to be precise each time, some scopes aren't that precise. Side focus works better than turret versions. You certainly don't want a cluttered reticle, duplex style is best. The 4.5 x 14 power range is more than accurate for your situation.
Its important that you determine whether your scope shoots to the same POI at the high and low power settings. A range card taped to the scope would keep you from trying to remember all the settings. Zero at 200 and you would be good to go from 100 to 300. Beyond that click for elevation.
Hope that helps.
 


At 550yds you need more that a 14X. 20X at least would be a start and yes, you need an AO scope and learn how to use it. The only one I would scope like this would be the 243. A 3x9 would be fine for the 223. Your scope is going to cost more that your rifle. Get over that and buy a good scope, cheap will not work at 500yds.

Next get a good trigger: Buy one from Fred. They will adjust down to 1# up to 3#.
My bench rifle will go down to 8oz.

http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/
 
My 6.5x47 lapua was built by Sharp Shooters Supply on a Savage action. It's topped by a Vortex 6x20 side focus scope. It is good out to 1000 yds. It is zeroed for 200yds. On a stand I range out to 500 yds if I have that much room. I pick out land marks at 100, 200, 300 and etc out to 500 or the longest range available. That way I have a good idea how far to the target when one shows up. I use the click up method and have verified the clicks for my scope by shooting at the various ranges and have the range card with me on the stand.
 
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Originally Posted By: ChupathingyOriginally Posted By: Coyotehunter_What does AO stand for?


You also have to take into account the context in which it is written/spoken, because it also means Area of Operation.


Chupa

Yea to me it means American Optical but I sort of figured it might mean Adjustable Objective. I have a Nikon M-223 that has a adjustment knob to eliminate parallax and I guess that's the same thing as the AO in the discussion. But for years I used AO to mean American Optical as they make the microscope's that I used at work.
 
I take a slightly different view on the question...I have a Leupold 4.5-14x, non-AO on my .204 and if you know your distances already to specific objects on your land, the Varmint Hunter reticle is quick for accurate sighting rather than having to worry about parallax...You just need to know your ammunition/firearm trajectory factors...

If you are in a position to take a stabilized shot at 300 yards, or more, you have time to make what adjustments are needed...It's the close, 'pop up' shots that require a faster sighting/shot situation..I keep mine zero'd at 200 yards and the stadia lines in the reticle hold true to specific distances out to just under 500 yards for the rounds I use...
 
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