buggybuilder
New member
Is there a distinct advantage to uniforming flash holes? I don't shoot competitive, just coyotes and informal target. Both of these are 200 yds or less, but still want tight groups.
uniforming flash holes
- Thread starter buggybuilder
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: buggybuilderIs there a distinct advantage to uniforming flash holes? I don't shoot competitive, just coyotes and informal target. Both of these are 200 yds or less, but still want tight groups.
You won't see any difference unless you are shooting a benchrest grade rifle... and even then you might not see a difference.
You won't see any difference unless you are shooting a benchrest grade rifle... and even then you might not see a difference.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
There are those reloaders and shooters that get really anal about their efforts....I fell into that trap for a bit until I started doing some honest comparison while chasing that 'perfect' round and group...I no longer weigh my cases and bullets down to the .1gr variations/groups...I don't try to perfect every aspect of the reloading process...There are just some factors that affect that bullet when the shot is fired over which you have very little control..
I've learned that I can't afford the $3000 bench guns and related accessories and much prefer to shoot against them using the "tactical" approach...Stock rifle, bipod or front sand bag, and spend my efforts on improving my personal skills...
I seldom finish in the top rankings, but I do get close enough to cause some of them to sweat a little bit during the scoring process...That gives me more pleasure than if I took first place..
From a hunting aspect, the same pretty much holds true...between the ignition of the cartridge and the impact of the bullet, I don't think anyone can predict with 100% certainty what the prey will do in the next split second....How well you know your weapon and can control your physical actions is more important than the weight of the bullet being fired...
I've learned that I can't afford the $3000 bench guns and related accessories and much prefer to shoot against them using the "tactical" approach...Stock rifle, bipod or front sand bag, and spend my efforts on improving my personal skills...
I seldom finish in the top rankings, but I do get close enough to cause some of them to sweat a little bit during the scoring process...That gives me more pleasure than if I took first place..
From a hunting aspect, the same pretty much holds true...between the ignition of the cartridge and the impact of the bullet, I don't think anyone can predict with 100% certainty what the prey will do in the next split second....How well you know your weapon and can control your physical actions is more important than the weight of the bullet being fired...
I do uniform them for rifles.
When I get new brass I uniform the primer pockets & debur the flash holes. While it may not make much of a difference, both are simple, one time ops to ensure consistency. When I'm hunting and I get a shot at game, I want to know that I've done everything I can to make sure the round goes off & goes where I want it.
When I get new brass I uniform the primer pockets & debur the flash holes. While it may not make much of a difference, both are simple, one time ops to ensure consistency. When I'm hunting and I get a shot at game, I want to know that I've done everything I can to make sure the round goes off & goes where I want it.
CatShooter
New member
I usually don't do flash holes, but I just did a bunch for an old benchrest rifle that I dug out of the pile.
It is in 222 Mag, and I first campaigned it in '75-'77, and then trimmed the stock back and whacked crows with it for a few years... and it has been collecting dust since 1982.
I had a bunch of brass, plus I've been collecting it over the years whenever I came across some for free or real cheap.
Last year, I got the urge to do 500 yard chicken egg matches so I put a good Leupold 24x BR scope on it, and did some trial groups with 50gr BlitzKings, and got this group.
It is 0.143", with all mixed up cases from all over the place... so I figured that there was life in it yet.
So besides annealing the whole ~900 cases, I then coned the flash holes, primed them and sorted them by weight.
We'll see in the spring.time.
Widow maker 223
Active member
Dang thats a really impressive group!!
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: Widow maker 223Dang thats a really impressive group!!
Yeah, I likie!
Funny thing is, the gun shoots better now with BlitzKing (hunting) bullets than it did when I bought it, using match bullets.
That's why I decided to do the Full Monty on the cases.
Bullet technology sure has come a long way.
Yeah, I likie!
Funny thing is, the gun shoots better now with BlitzKing (hunting) bullets than it did when I bought it, using match bullets.
That's why I decided to do the Full Monty on the cases.
Bullet technology sure has come a long way.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: Widow maker 223Dang thats a really impressive group!!
Yeah, I likie!
Funny thing is, the gun shoots better now with BlitzKing (hunting) bullets than it did when I bought it, using match bullets.
That's why I decided to do the Full Monty on the cases.
Bullet technology sure has come a long way.
Those bk's are fine flyers for sure. I like em.
If ever you want to get rid of a few hundred of those 222mag brass let me know. I enjoy that round a lot and was my first accurate rifle. Brass is tough to find.
Enjoy.
Yeah, I likie!
Funny thing is, the gun shoots better now with BlitzKing (hunting) bullets than it did when I bought it, using match bullets.
That's why I decided to do the Full Monty on the cases.
Bullet technology sure has come a long way.
Those bk's are fine flyers for sure. I like em.
If ever you want to get rid of a few hundred of those 222mag brass let me know. I enjoy that round a lot and was my first accurate rifle. Brass is tough to find.
Enjoy.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Master class shooters generally think it is of a tiny benfit at 600 and 1000 yards.
Jack
Jack
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: buggybuilder
Is there a distinct advantage to uniforming flash holes? I don't shoot competitive, just coyotes and informal target. Both of these are 200 yds or less, but still want tight groups.
No. Not even a slight advantage.
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts
Master class shooters generally think it is of a tiny benfit at 600 and 1000 yards.
Jack
I agree with both is these comments...
... but, when you are preparing brass for any type of competition, there are mental issues involved, and the need is to not leave any stone un-turned, even when you know it may not (or will not) help - and brass preparation, bullet weighing, etc is part of the "rituals" that are required for the mind to get psyched for it.
Is there a distinct advantage to uniforming flash holes? I don't shoot competitive, just coyotes and informal target. Both of these are 200 yds or less, but still want tight groups.
No. Not even a slight advantage.
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts
Master class shooters generally think it is of a tiny benfit at 600 and 1000 yards.
Jack
I agree with both is these comments...
... but, when you are preparing brass for any type of competition, there are mental issues involved, and the need is to not leave any stone un-turned, even when you know it may not (or will not) help - and brass preparation, bullet weighing, etc is part of the "rituals" that are required for the mind to get psyched for it.
Bob Tobergte
New member
I do deburr flash holes on new brass as well as all the rest of preperations to remove, as best I can, any variables that mite effect accuracy & that would include bedding work, trigger work, maintenance, range work & whatever one can think of when hanging around the mancave to improve myself on shooting.
Cost a lot of time & money to pursue this activity, so why take the chance not to.
Now if I could just learn to spell, I could share my thots accurately.
Cost a lot of time & money to pursue this activity, so why take the chance not to.
Now if I could just learn to spell, I could share my thots accurately.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: Bob Tobergte
Now if I could just learn to spell, I could share my thots accurately.
You are from Kentucky - all is forgiven
Now if I could just learn to spell, I could share my thots accurately.
You are from Kentucky - all is forgiven
TrapShooter12
Member
The question is with all that extra prep can you shoot sub minute groups. If not you are wasting your time.
People get to wrapped up in the anal garbage that involves reloading.
I shoot a few Tactical events and I do my flash holes but that is the only thing I do compared to some of the other people I shoot against and I still place near the top. The only thing that stops me from getting to the top is a few stupid mental errors.
People get to wrapped up in the anal garbage that involves reloading.
I shoot a few Tactical events and I do my flash holes but that is the only thing I do compared to some of the other people I shoot against and I still place near the top. The only thing that stops me from getting to the top is a few stupid mental errors.
Hooked
New member
On new rifle brass I deburr the flash hole and uniform the pockets. As mentioned it is a one time operation.
Not sure if it happens often but I have prepped some .308 Win. Winchester brass that had quite a burr inside at the primer hole; like if you opened a tin can 90% of the way and pulled the lid up..smaller of course. Not all were like this but all seemed to be very rough around the edges.
Not sure if it happens often but I have prepped some .308 Win. Winchester brass that had quite a burr inside at the primer hole; like if you opened a tin can 90% of the way and pulled the lid up..smaller of course. Not all were like this but all seemed to be very rough around the edges.
Bob Tobergte
New member
Originally Posted By: TrapShooter12The question is with all that extra prep can you shoot sub minute groups. If not you are wasting your time.
People get to wrapped up in the anal garbage that involves reloading.
I shoot a few Tactical events and I do my flash holes but that is the only thing I do compared to some of the other people I shoot against and I still place near the top. The only thing that stops me from getting to the top is a few stupid mental errors.
Doing all of these 'anal garbage' things is a big part of my 'hobby'. Wanna thank you for your observation & Thanks for the advice kind sir.......
The ones that skip all of these preporations are likely the ones who couldn't shoot good enuff to notice any improvments.
People get to wrapped up in the anal garbage that involves reloading.
I shoot a few Tactical events and I do my flash holes but that is the only thing I do compared to some of the other people I shoot against and I still place near the top. The only thing that stops me from getting to the top is a few stupid mental errors.
Doing all of these 'anal garbage' things is a big part of my 'hobby'. Wanna thank you for your observation & Thanks for the advice kind sir.......
The ones that skip all of these preporations are likely the ones who couldn't shoot good enuff to notice any improvments.
I just did the flash holes on 100 6.5 Grendel cases, Hornady brass. While I could feel it cleaning up some burrs I got a lot less debris than I have in the past with Remington brass.
I also didn't observe any out of round case mouths. This stuff comes in boxes of 50, I'd say the box packaging protects it more from being beat up than just being bagged does.
I also didn't observe any out of round case mouths. This stuff comes in boxes of 50, I'd say the box packaging protects it more from being beat up than just being bagged does.
the steps I do, it comes down to me taking a little effort to ensure such consistency as I can in my ammo & having confidence when I have game in my sights that "ve done my part in making as sure as possible that it will go off & the bullet will go where I send it.
If I'm going to hunt with my ammo, my ammo needs to be as good as I can make it.
Now, let's say I have an AR, don't hunt with it. Just take it to the range & shoot a lot. Iron sights.
Would I bother with most of these steps? Nope.
I'd take new brass & examine it for dented necks, resize any obvious problems & then load it. I would check each loaded round in a case gauge while on the way to an ammo box.
But I shoot pretty accurate rifles, with good optics & want my ammo to get the best out of the rifle it's loaded for, so I do a little extra.
Consider my 30-06:
When the current barrel was new I could easily shoot groups well under 1 inch at 100 yards. This with a 3 - 9x scope on 9x. A few thousand rounds later I still get generally good groups but some flyers.
My 444 Marlin, a lever action not generally known for great accuracy:
It wears a 1-4x Leupold. I shoot groups under 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
My 30-30 Marlin, a lever action not generally known for great accuracy:
It wears a 4x Bushnell. I shoot groups under 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
At 100 yards on 4x, the bullseye on a paper target is pretty small. Sometimes I wonder how tight those rifles would be if I put higher powered scopes on them just for the range.
My Colt AR in 223 can shoot groups well under 1 inch if I do my part.
Lots of shooters:
1) Don't have the skills/abilities to shoot tight groups
2) Don't have guns/sights capable of shooting tight groups.
I'm not one of those shooters.
In my junior year in HS, I went to a private school, a military academy that had a rifle team. And by rifle team I mean one that shot. I tried out for it.
On my try out, shooting a rifle I such as I'd never seen before, I scored Army Sharp Shooter. I later found out that the rifle was missing its rear sight, I was using the frame that holds it to aim.
In short order with a rifle complete with sights I qualified Expert.
I had a GREAT coach on that team & he taught me rifle marksmanship quite well. I went on to win a box full of medals, mostly first place. That april we shot in the annual UT Martin invitational, 36 high school and college teams.
I took first place prone, kneeling & standing & first overall with no one even close to me, and as a team we took first place, also with no team close to us.
After that match I found out that I had astigmatism in my right eye & needed glasses.
In short, I can shoot. A rifle any way, my handgun skills have never approached my rifle skills.
With this in mind, I take a little extra effort in making my ammo.
If I'm going to hunt with my ammo, my ammo needs to be as good as I can make it.
Now, let's say I have an AR, don't hunt with it. Just take it to the range & shoot a lot. Iron sights.
Would I bother with most of these steps? Nope.
I'd take new brass & examine it for dented necks, resize any obvious problems & then load it. I would check each loaded round in a case gauge while on the way to an ammo box.
But I shoot pretty accurate rifles, with good optics & want my ammo to get the best out of the rifle it's loaded for, so I do a little extra.
Consider my 30-06:
When the current barrel was new I could easily shoot groups well under 1 inch at 100 yards. This with a 3 - 9x scope on 9x. A few thousand rounds later I still get generally good groups but some flyers.
My 444 Marlin, a lever action not generally known for great accuracy:
It wears a 1-4x Leupold. I shoot groups under 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
My 30-30 Marlin, a lever action not generally known for great accuracy:
It wears a 4x Bushnell. I shoot groups under 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
At 100 yards on 4x, the bullseye on a paper target is pretty small. Sometimes I wonder how tight those rifles would be if I put higher powered scopes on them just for the range.
My Colt AR in 223 can shoot groups well under 1 inch if I do my part.
Lots of shooters:
1) Don't have the skills/abilities to shoot tight groups
2) Don't have guns/sights capable of shooting tight groups.
I'm not one of those shooters.
In my junior year in HS, I went to a private school, a military academy that had a rifle team. And by rifle team I mean one that shot. I tried out for it.
On my try out, shooting a rifle I such as I'd never seen before, I scored Army Sharp Shooter. I later found out that the rifle was missing its rear sight, I was using the frame that holds it to aim.
In short order with a rifle complete with sights I qualified Expert.
I had a GREAT coach on that team & he taught me rifle marksmanship quite well. I went on to win a box full of medals, mostly first place. That april we shot in the annual UT Martin invitational, 36 high school and college teams.
I took first place prone, kneeling & standing & first overall with no one even close to me, and as a team we took first place, also with no team close to us.
After that match I found out that I had astigmatism in my right eye & needed glasses.
In short, I can shoot. A rifle any way, my handgun skills have never approached my rifle skills.
With this in mind, I take a little extra effort in making my ammo.
Hooked
New member
Stu, I believe Hornady brass has the flash hole drilled, rather than punched, and is why you would not feel as much of a burr. Hornady brass IME is pretty good stuff. I have only purchased one box of new for .243 Win. but I have several hundred once fired .223 Rem. and it seems very good too.
Neat bit of history you shared. thanks, that`s very cool!
Neat bit of history you shared. thanks, that`s very cool!