Why are newer 223's built with faster twists?

J

JerryinPA

New member
Hi all,

I recently made a post asking about the twist rates of Tikka rifles.

We learned that Tikka's bolt action rifles manufactured within the past year have been made with 1 in 8 twist... previously they were 1 in 12.

Savage has likewise began manufacturing their bolt actions in 1 in 9.

What still puzzles me is this:

What is the advantage of the faster twists that they are becoming so popular in the 223?

Is it just that a heavier bullet can be used? (I have a 243 if that's all I want to do.)

Isn't there a distinct disadvantage to the faster twists, with faster barrel wear?

Is there something else that I'm missing here?

Regards to all,

Jerry.
 
I think it may be because the faster twists allow for shooting heavier bullets accuratley. Not totally sure though.

If this is the case does the faster twist adversly affect shooting lighter bullets?
 
.223 "Match" bullets are heavier... plus to give us a reason for a 2nd or 3rd.. .223 rifle to buy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I think it is to stabilize heavier bullets. It may not hurt the lighter bullets if they are of a good quality. Of course, the faster a bullet spins on its axis, the greater potential for 'blow up'. Someone with much more knowledge than myself posted a good web site that explained alot of this. I kinda like the idea of faster twist barrels. I also don't think that the average shooter will 'shoot out' a faster twist barrel any faster than a slower twist.
Oh Yeah, I have definatly been wrong before.
 
1 in 8 twist rates for the .223 were developed to stabilize the heavy (69 grain +) VLD bullets used in the "Hi-Power" events. This bullet weight, combined with the faster twist rate, allowed the AR type platforms to compete in a field that has always been dominated by the M1A/.7.62mm combination. While there is an "optimum" twist rate for a particular weight/SD bullet, it's pretty hard to "over-stabilize" a bullet. Unless a particular mfgr states a "max velocity" for a particular bullet (most noteably light-for-caliber "varmint" rounds), it's not very likely that you'll "spin" a bullet apart nowadays.

Generally speaking, there's not much real rationale to not have the fastest twist rate available for a given caliber.

Mike
 
Fast twist barrels are used to shoot the 69, 77, 80gr match bullets for Hi Power competition. The twist on the .223 has no effect on barrel wear like it does on larger calibers. The reason I like the fast twist is the heavy match bullets are cheaper than the regular ones and the 6mm. They have a much high BC too.

1 in 12 is still standard for .223 rifles. The 1 in 9 for the Savage is only found in the LE version unless they have changed. I have never seen a factory boltgun with a 1 in 8 twist but I hope you are right about the Tikka! I have tried to get them to go to 1 in 8's for years.

1 in 8's will shoot the light bullets just as well as any 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. Have proved that many times over the years. I just can't see having a rifle with a twist that can't shoot them all.
 
The faster twists (some .223's are now 1:7) allow for the stabilization of LONGER bullets. The longer the bullet, in simplified terms, the greater the BC (Ballistic Coefficient). The higher the BC the more accurate and the better the wind bucking abilities.

The higher BC bullet will be a heavier bullet given the same SD (Sectional Density) but this will not neccesarily be so if the bullets are of different materials and/or construction. A pure lead bullet of 65gr would require approximately the same twist to stabilize as a pure copper 50gr bullet, all other factors being equal.

As Linefinder alluded to, fast twist barrels and VLLD (Very Long Low Drag) bullets were first produced, other than by some ballistic nuts, for Service Rifle Highpower National Match competition where the AR shooters had to be accurate out to 600yds.

A fast twist barrel will stabilize a short (light weight?) bullet though Linefinder is right again in that it may be faster than the theoretical "optimum". He's also right that it would be VERY difficult attain enough velocity to "blow up" a .223 bullet, HOWEVER very short frangible bullets (polymer tipped for instance) WILL have even more of a tendancy than normal to "spatter" on contact.

Fast twist barrells WILL wear out faster but this is relative. You're still talking about many many thousands of rounds so it's not usually a consideration for anyone but a heavy competition shooter.

Fast twist barrels have become popular in factory rifles as more "civilians" have realized the potential of the .223 as a long(er) range cartridge even with some wind. They allow you to shoot longer (usually heavier) bullets wich has influenced some to take larger game, though a .223 is illegal for deer in many states.

Leon
 
SteveM,

Just picked myself up a Savage Model 16 w/Accutrigger in .223Rem (lefty, I am a cursed one!). I think all Savage .223 are in a 1:9 twist now. Mine shoots like a hot damn the 50gr. V-Max over 27 gr. of Varget. Chrony average at 3380fps, COL ~2.300. Average 5 shot group is 0.80 at one hundred yards and best group is 0.60 (thus far!) so far all groups come in under an inch (factory no mods), all center to center measured.

Going to be my main stay Coyote and Gopher gun. A little lighter than my Rem VS in .22-250, like 4 lbs lighter! Important when you need to snoeshow to find the song dogs up in Northern Alberta!

Regards,
Lefty
 
It is a minor point but the VLD bullets were first developed for International 3 Position High Power competition. They first were used by the US International and Olympic teams, mainly in World Cups and World Championships and maybe the Pan American Games.

They were rapidly adopted by National Match shooters shortly afterwards.

Jack
 
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basically they want to give people the ability to shoot heavy bullets if they want to. With a 1:9 twist you can shoot everything from 40to around 69grns. since 1:9 twist is just as accurate with the lighter bullets as the heavy ones you have more flexability. The only problem with heavy bullets unless you are shooting at known distances like the high power guys the drop on the heavies is gonna suck. IMO a 223 performs best with bullets in the 50-55grn area.
 
Savage had talked about changing all the .223's to 1 in 9 so they could use one barrel. Looks like they have come around.
 
The original M16's had a 1in14 twist which was good for the 50 grain ammo JUST!! It was a tumbling round upon impact and I guess was our governments answer to the Geneva convention rules about using only FMJ ammo. This round would mess the NVA up real good WHEN it hit them. The military went to a 1in12 twist to stabilize the 55 grain bullets. The civilian versions went to a 1 in 9 I'm not sure about the military's progression after 1972. The 1in9 is primarily for stabilizing the larger grain bullets and to keep the round from tumbling.
 
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