.204 ruger vs. .17 Rem

H

HighCountry66

New member
Can anyone with experience with both of these rounds give tell about thier experiences.

I would like to buy a sub caliber rifle, with little or no recoil that is capable of the occasional 350 to 400 yard shot on ground hogs. Also, I really do not want something that is very destructive, as I may use this gun for fox and coyote. I am really leaning toward the 17, just because I am more intrigued by the light weight bullets. But would also be interested to hear of anyones ballistics in the 17 with the 30 and 37 gr. Berger bullets.

I have heard that reloading for the 204, that manufacturers velocities cannot be duplicated at this time, due to the special powder. I realize though that it would be better for long range due to the weight of the bullet.

Really I want something that I can play around with the loads and experiment for myself.

I already own a 243 and a 22-250 so please, just info on these two calibers would be appreciated.

Thank you.

I tried this post on another forum and didn't get very much response. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Another factor is reloadability and expense. I don't want to form cases. I don't really want a wildcat, but I will try to remain open to suggestions.
 
HighCountry66-- I own and shoot both the .17 Remington and a .204 Ruger. The .17 Remington I have has a 1 in 9" twist barrel with 4 grooves. It handles 20 gr., 25 gr., and 30 gr. bullets just fine. I use the 30 gr. bullets for coyotes. I have not shot any fox with the 30 gr. bullets, but I would guess it would be a bit hard on the fur. Even the 20 gr. and 25 gr. bullets will tear up a fox hide with the wrong shot placement. While you can certainly make a killing shot on coyotes, fox, and prairie dogs with the .17 at 350 to 400 yards, I believe you are stretching the capability of the .17 Remington just a tad at those distances.

The .204 Ruger has just a tiny bit more recoil than my .17 Remington, but you can still see the target animal when the bullet hits. My opinion is that the .204 Ruger is too much gun for fox hunting unless you load it down and find the right bullet to prevent fur damage. It is a GREAT caliber for coyotes, prairie dogs and other varmints. The .204 Ruger, coupled with one of the heavier bullets with the higher BCs is certainly capable of killing your ground hogs at the aforementioned 350 to 400 yard distances. I believe one poster on this board has not had real good luck with the .204 Ruger when he has shot ground hogs. He says they crawl back into their holes. That has DEFINITELY NOT been my experience with coyotes or prairie dogs. Yes, I have had a runner or two with coyotes, but they were acutally dead and didn't know it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif My longest shot on coyotes was a tad over 275 yards and I was shooting 35 gr. Berger FB HP bullets. My longest shot on prairie dogs was around 325 yards and those prairie dogs DID NOT crawl back to their holes. They were dead upon delivery of the 32 gr. V-Max bullet!!! We don't have ground hogs around here, but my opinion is that you could count on the .204 Ruger to give you 350 to 400 yard kills with the 32 gr., 34 gr., 35 gr., 39 gr., and 40 gr. bullets in a 1 in 12" or 1 in 11" twist barrel. If you want to use the 50 gr. bullets, I believe you will have to go to a barrel with a 1 in 9" twist.

Whoever is telling you that they are reloading for the .204 Ruger and cannot duplicate or exceed the manufacturer's velocities hasn't found the right load yet!!! I have used several different powders with the 32 gr. and 40 gr. V-Max, the 35 gr. Berger FB HP, and the 40 gr. Berger LTB and exceeded the velocities listed on the factory ammo boxes from Hornady for the both 32 gr. and 40 gr. ammo.

My suggestion would be to get both the .17 Remington AND the .204 Ruger rifles. You can never have too many guns or too much ammunition!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
S-Fox,
Thank You. That was totally objective and since you have experience (AND ownership) of both weapons I value your learned opinion (AS usual). Seems like every caliber discussion is "Alien vs Predator" anymore. Good review. Thanks Again
 
I really like your solution Silverfox, "get them both".

A 400 yard shot would be very rare. I only have a few places where it would even be possible and most shots at coyotes would probably be in wooded areas and under 200 yards.

Thanks for the response Silverfox.
 
Welcome to the board 66.

I believe that either one will work for what you speak of with no problem since you reload. My opinion on the .17 is you have to be a reloader to get the benefits.

Ok, I throughly believe in the .17 Rem and feel there is no need for the 204 as long as you reload. The 30gr bullets are the way to go in my book as they have high BC. In testing, they buck the wind as good as my .220 Swift out to 500 yds.
I agree with Fox on the fur damage for fox's as both can tear them a new one with about any bullet. If I were to shoot fox with them would go with the 20gr V-Max in the .17. To shoot the 37gr Berger you speak of you are gonna need a 1 in 6 twist and it is a one bullet barrel! I would not recommend this one. My opinon on the .204 is just something new like everything else to sell products. It is just like most every other caliber, one is already available that can do the job. But as Fox said, you can never have enough rifles!! LOL!!
 
Nice sell out...who saw that one coming? Now the 17 rem. guys are loading crap on the 204sters? That's rich. AVP all over gain.
 
I have loaded and shot many many rounds with a 17, never had trouble getting the powder in the hulls. use a 17 cal funnel and pour powder on side of funnel. it will spiral down the funnel like flushing a toilet. I am sure the same extends to the 204. I dont have one. allready had the 17,222rem,223 22 hornet,22-250 and 220 swift, and didnt see the benefits of moving up to the 204. But I agree get both, If I see one, with the right price and have a hankering, I will prob get that one too. Like they said you can never have too many.
 
Man what a great psot!! Thanks for this I have been debating like mad over this exact same scenario. I am leaning towards the .204 when ammo is more redily available here. SImply because of the gun choices chabered in it. The only .17s I can find are the BDL and LV SS.
Keep the info coming guys!!
 
You can never have enought 17 caliber rifles - or 20 caliber rifles.

That's why God invented small 22 caliber cases - so you can neck 'em down to something in a smaller caliber. - BCB
 
High Country

I have debated this exact scenario with myself. I currently have .17HMR, .17Rem, 204, .222Rem, .223Rem, .22-250, .223WSSM, 220Swift, and .243Win for shooting small game. Here is what I can tell you --

I love all of these guns, BUT, the .17Rem and the .204 are the ONLY ones that come out of the closet for fur hunting. I have been using the WSSM for P-dogs etc, but this gun seems to turn any fur-bearer inside out.

If you are hunting more fox than yote, I would lean toward the .17Rem. I have killed 36 fox since T-giving, and have NEVER had anything but a bang-flop, (knock on wood). However, most of my shots have been less than 200yards with only one shot greater than 300. I can tell you that if you just graze the fox or shoot down on top of him into solid bone, even the 17Rem is going to tear the hell out of the hide. In my opinion, the .204 is just a little much for fox, especially if you are shooting them at reasonable distances.

If you are hunting more yotes, then take the .204. To be effective on yotes with my .17Rem, I have to use 30gr bullets and be pretty careful of the shots I take. HOWEVER, if you are careful, it can be done -- My brother won't touch the .204, and he has taken 56 yotes this year with 30gr berger .17Rem loads. The .204 gives you just a little extra "poop" if you don't perform perfectly behind the trigger. The same appies to fur damage for the .204. You WILL make some less than perfect shots on yotes and it is going to tear the hide up. My belief is that this is the exception rather than the rule.

Bottom line on this is that you are not going to go wrong either way -- both of these are great calibers and either of these guns see more action than all the other guns in the safe combined. Hell get 'em both

AFHunter
 
Gander- CZ also makes a 17rem. I just got one last week and I will tell you it is one fine shootin little rifle definately worth a look and not a large price tag. Cooper makes one as well but it is a tad on the $$ side but ya get what ya pay for a high quality rifle. You couldn't go wrong with either of the 2 I mentioned.
 
The Ultimate 17 Caliber Myth:

"And on top of all those other bad things I've HEARD about a 17 caliber, it's hard to get the powder into the case."

hehehe - BCB
 
HC,
I own a .17 Rem, a .204 Ruger, and a .19-223. The only thing I hunt is groundhogs. The .17 was fine for me until the .19-223 came along. The .204 does not shoot as accuratly as the .19.
Hardly use the .17 Rem. now. However it is a great cartridge and have owned mine since the early '70s.
I have not had any 'chucks make back to their hole after being shot with the .19. Can't say the same for the .17.
I have not given the .204 a fair test yet as far as effectiveness on 'chucks. Should be pretty much the same as the .19.
hard to say which would be better for you. Like several others have said, get both.
Jeff
 
19calJeff,

Sounds like you've gone the same route as me. I ended up with both the .19-223, and the .19 Calhoon Hornet. Of course I'll never get rid of my .17 Rem. It's a fun caliber. Just alittle more finicky. I am still looking for the ultimate load/powder for that one. Right now it seems to favor Varget with the 20g VMax's. The .19's however, just plain shoot!
 
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