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#2553191 - 10/07/13 10:04 AM Tubbs final finish
batman1262 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 358
Loc: W KY
I have recently purchased a new rifle, savage mod 12 VLP-DBM, has a stainless 26" bull barrel. I was thinking about using these tubbs ffinal finish bullets to lapp the barrel. Was wonder what everyone else thought about this idea. I did this with a cheaper gun, H & R in 223 and it helped alittle with accuracy but a large help in cleaning! All thoughts are appreciated!

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#2553196 - 10/07/13 10:19 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
Mike B Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 2725
Loc: central PA
From what I've seen in other peoples experiences with TFF, and considering that you have a "better" quality weapon there, I'd fire the gun some first, clean it a few times, then see if you think you may need it. Basically, it is an abrasive, and removes barrel metal - you can't put that metal back in there once it's gone, so I'd try it out and see what you think before you go blowing abrasive thru it at high speed. It isn't like the hand-lapping that custom barrel makers do to their wares.
_________________________
Mike B

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#2553206 - 10/07/13 10:42 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
CatShooter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 9094
Loc: The Socialist Republic of CT.
Originally Posted By: batman1262
I have recently purchased a new rifle, savage mod 12 VLP-DBM, has a stainless 26" bull barrel. I was thinking about using these tubbs ffinal finish bullets to lapp the barrel. Was wonder what everyone else thought about this idea. I did this with a cheaper gun, H & R in 223 and it helped alittle with accuracy but a large help in cleaning! All thoughts are appreciated!


Don't do that...

There have been many tests of these things and the final result is that they do nothing but eat away at your throat and shorten your barrel life.

They do NOT polish your barrel.

We worry all the time about keeping dirt and grit out of our barrels - yet people are willing to take silicone carbide grit, stick it on a bullet, and shove it down your barrel under 50,000+ psi, into a hole that is several thousandths smaller, and we thank that will help thing get better???

I mean, HELLO!!
_________________________
CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

NRA Life member since 1965

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#2553207 - 10/07/13 10:48 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
batman1262 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 358
Loc: W KY
I did a search after posting that and I believe I ask a stupid question. I was trying to find a way to make a factory barrel like a custome barrel...only way to do that is buy the custom! lol

Now I gotta get a breakin proceedure! What do you guys use? Shoot, clean, shoot, clean, and repeat?

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#2553213 - 10/07/13 11:04 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
doggin coyotes Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 10539
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: batman1262


Now I gotta get a breakin proceedure! What do you guys use? Shoot, clean, shoot, clean, and repeat?


This is the one I normally recommend and seems to work as good as any.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg
_________________________
Colorado has smelled like one big azz brush fire every since 1-1-14.

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#2553217 - 10/07/13 11:20 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
batman1262...There are no 'stupid' questions if you need an answer to a potential problem.... thumbup1

As to your barrel break in...Before trying anything else, Savage barrels usually turn out to be one of the better factory productions on the market and shoot well from the get go...If you are experiencing something less than anticipated, first, try shooting a couple of 20 round boxes of ammo through it initially....If you want to shoot, clean, shoot, etc,,,that's your personal choice...I've not found that much, if any, benefit from doing so..

The inside of a barrel, unless it's been professionally hand lapped, will have a degree of microscopic tool marks, depending on the method used to cut the bore...I would not try to 'hand lap' the barrel yourself...That, if not properly done, can lead to more problems..

I've found that by running a few rounds of the cheapest FMJ ammo that I can find (usually military surplus) through the barrel before a thorough cleaning tends to 'burnish' the bore surface by smoothing out the tool marks and then clean thoroughly to remove any powder or copper residue....

There are great chemical products (many opinions as to what is 'best') that will do this better than using metal brushes...Nylon brushes are great for loosening any build up in conjunction with the chemicals..After that, patches will tell you when you are about 'clean' by leaving very little, if any, stain on the patches...

Then, go back to shooting and pay attention to where your accuracy starts to fall off and that will generally tell you when you need to plan on cleaning again...a lot of barrels get ruined by over cleaning and many find that rifles shoot consistently better when the bore is a little fouled...
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


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#2553233 - 10/07/13 11:52 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
CatShooter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 9094
Loc: The Socialist Republic of CT.
Originally Posted By: batman1262

Now I gotta get a breakin procedure! What do you guys use? Shoot, clean, shoot, clean, and repeat?


Take some ammo and got to the range.

Shoot it.

Go home.

Clean your rifle.

Repeat as often as possible.

Mix in some shooting of furry critters.

Your barrel will be fine all by itself. It just "happens" all by itself. lol
_________________________
CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

NRA Life member since 1965

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#2553473 - 10/07/13 10:07 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
Mt. Shooter Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 24
Loc: Eastern Montana
I have a 700 vssf in 22-250 that wouldn't shoot under a 2.5" group with any bullet & load what-so-ever. I tinkered with every load & powder possible and shot and cleaned a myriad of times over a years period of time. A friend talked me into trying the Final Finish before I rebarreled it. At the time it simply did not make sense and went against any and all logic that it could do me any good and then I decided that for $40 I could at least try it if for nothing else to prove to my friend that a barrel was the only real solution. Ordered and loaded them up and followed the direction through the whole process and believe it or not the rifle shoots less than dime size groups with 3 different bulets weights. I've be reloading and shooting for almost 50 years and have seen some strange things but this deal still has me puzzled but I know it worked.

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#2553489 - 10/07/13 10:52 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: Mt. Shooter]
Mr Potato Head Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 1213
Loc: Indiana
What catshooter said.
_________________________
"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

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#2553570 - 10/08/13 06:16 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: Mt. Shooter]
CatShooter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 9094
Loc: The Socialist Republic of CT.
Originally Posted By: Mt. Shooter
I have a 700 vssf in 22-250 that wouldn't shoot under a 2.5" group with any bullet & load what-so-ever. I tinkered with every load & powder possible and shot and cleaned a myriad of times over a years period of time. A friend talked me into trying the Final Finish before I rebarreled it. At the time it simply did not make sense and went against any and all logic that it could do me any good and then I decided that for $40 I could at least try it if for nothing else to prove to my friend that a barrel was the only real solution. Ordered and loaded them up and followed the direction through the whole process and believe it or not the rifle shoots less than dime size groups with 3 different bulets weights. I've be reloading and shooting for almost 50 years and have seen some strange things but this deal still has me puzzled but I know it worked.


"... and if you call in the next 10 minutes, we'll send you two sets, (and a Ronco vegematic) for the price of one, plus... "

I'm not sayin' that you are not tellin' the truth, but I'm sure having a hard time believing this story.
_________________________
CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

NRA Life member since 1965

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#2553671 - 10/08/13 11:51 AM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: CatShooter]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 16269
Loc: S. Texas
Quote:
I'm not sayin' that you are not tellin' the truth, but I'm sure having a hard time believing this story.


My guess is that the barrel was copper fouled and the abrasive removed that fouling???

Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




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#2553715 - 10/08/13 01:35 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
Mt. Shooter Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 24
Loc: Eastern Montana
Catshooter & hm1996
It was not copper fouling and I've cleaned enough barrels in my time to know if that was the problem. Unbelievable that you assume you're the only one who would be able to indentify that? If you don't believe it, bring your boney butt and your smart condescending remarks to Montana and we'll prove it. Even then you'll be too narcissistic to believe it. Not everyone on here is an idiot nor a liar but some have different experience than what you consider the Holy Grail.

Narcisssistic Personality Disorder - Mayo Clinic Definition Narcissitic personality disorder is mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for others feeling.

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#2553718 - 10/08/13 01:44 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
I've heard other "good" reports occasionally from using the Tubbs Final Finish....My only advice to the OP was to try less potentially damaging procedures, before stepping off into the unknown that can get expensive for good barrel replacement....

Most of the earlier reports (should be able to pull up some old [5 years?] threads on it here) were involving barrels where almost everything else reasonable had been tried...

Let's not let this one evolve into personalities... thumbup1 ...I'm in no mood for deleting and locking as it's potentially good info for others...
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


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#2553720 - 10/08/13 01:55 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: batman1262]
batman1262 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 358
Loc: W KY
Thanks for all the help and support guys. This is a great site for help. I am Lapping the rings and setting scope tonite after work. Hopefully some range time tomorrow! I will let u guys know how it goes.

I was thinking about buying a couple boxes of the cheap ammo to start the breaking in. Anybody heard of PPU ammo? I think is was Prvi? Prolly not cosistant but looking to shoot a box then clean, then go to a box of black hills ammo to see what type of accuracy I may have.

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#2553722 - 10/08/13 02:01 PM Re: Tubbs final finish [Re: Mt. Shooter]
CatShooter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 9094
Loc: The Socialist Republic of CT.
Originally Posted By: Mt. Shooter
Catshooter & hm1996
It was not copper fouling and I've cleaned enough barrels in my time to know if that was the problem. Unbelievable that you assume you're the only one who would be able to indentify that? If you don't believe it, bring your boney butt and your smart condescending remarks to Montana and we'll prove it. Even then you'll be too narcissistic to believe it. Not everyone on here is an idiot nor a liar but some have different experience than what you consider the Holy Grail.

Narcisssistic Personality Disorder - Mayo Clinic Definition Narcissitic personality disorder is mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for others feeling.


It's not about me... several reliable magazines (The Rifle, and Precision Shooting) did tests on these and found that they did serious damage to the throats, and did nothing to improve anything. Over the past 10 or 15 years I have heard hundreds of reports about how this was tried, and they had to replace the barrel, because it got worse.

But lastly, your post read exactly like a TV testimonial advertisement...

Glad your rifle works for you... I still don't believe it.
_________________________
CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

NRA Life member since 1965

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