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#2550473 - 09/30/13 09:10 PM 25-06 loading
Ramjet Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 595
Loc: West Tennessee
Well just loaded some 25-06's with 117gr Hornaday SST Interloks , 53 grains of H4831sc, Rem 91/2M primers .I was walking this one up to 54 grains but my old Mid 70's Hodgon manual shows 55grains of old H4831 . Found the same load in Pet loads . Anybody got any experience. The current manuals are all over the map . I guess I'm about to find out if there is any significant difference between 4831 and 4831sc. Just thougt some of you 06 guys might have some thoughts. This is a Stevens 200 for reference.


Edited by Ramjet (09/30/13 09:12 PM)
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All you need in life is a boy and an old yellow dog and you have everything!

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#2550482 - 09/30/13 09:25 PM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
RiverRider Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas
H4831 and H4831SC are the same. Same data is used for both.

From QuickLOAD, default values:

Code:
Cartridge          : .25-06 Rem.
Bullet             : .257, 117, Hornady SST InterLock 25522
Useable Case Capaci: 60.162 grain H2O = 3.906 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4831 SC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   90    50.40   2804    2042   45260  11444     94.2    1.307
-09.0   91    50.96   2836    2089   46814  11583     94.7    1.286
-08.0   92    51.52   2868    2137   48427  11719     95.2    1.266
-07.0   93    52.08   2900    2185   50098  11850     95.7    1.246
-06.0   94    52.64   2932    2233   51821  11978     96.1    1.227
-05.0   95    53.20   2964    2283   53599  12101     96.6    1.208
-04.0   96    53.76   2996    2332   55435  12220     97.0    1.190
-03.0   97    54.32   3029    2383   57336  12334     97.3    1.171  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   98    54.88   3061    2433   59305  12443     97.7    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   99    55.44   3093    2485   61346  12548     98.0    1.136  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  100    56.00   3125    2536   63462  12647     98.3    1.118  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  101    56.56   3157    2589   65655  12741     98.6    1.101  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  102    57.12   3189    2642   67930  12830     98.9    1.085  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  103    57.68   3221    2695   70290  12913     99.1    1.068  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  104    58.24   3253    2748   72739  12991     99.3    1.052  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  105    58.80   3285    2803   75282  13062     99.5    1.036  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    100    56.00   3267    2772   75382  12423    100.0    1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    100    56.00   2934    2236   51850  12236     92.5    1.223



Just remember that NO MATTER WHAT---in handloading you are on your own!

Stay safe.

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#2550516 - 09/30/13 10:15 PM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: RiverRider]
Ramjet Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 595
Loc: West Tennessee
River have you shot any of those loads?
_________________________
All you need in life is a boy and an old yellow dog and you have everything!

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#2550539 - 09/30/13 10:44 PM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
RiverRider Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas
No, Ramjet...not with 117s. I shoot 85 Ballistic Tips in my .25-06 using H4831SC.

I DO believe that when you see a velocity of 3061 fps out of a 24-inch barrel, your pressure should be right around 59305 psi, more or less, and NOT that it wiull necessarily be achieved with a charge of 54.88 grains of H4831. This is my approach to using QuickLOAD (and yes, we all have to recognize that all the data we see is no better than any other ASSUMPTION for our purposes).

In your shoes, I think I'd use a chronograph and regard about 3050 fps as the max achievable velocity---whatever the required charge of H4831 may be. And I'd stop before reaching that velocity if pressure signs develop before then, of course.

I think the best you should hope for is an accuracy node right around 3000 to 3050 fps using H4831. If you don't have access to a chronograph, I think you should definitely stick to published data.

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#2550620 - 10/01/13 12:50 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
Bigdog2 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/23/02
Posts: 1961
Loc: Oregon
But be careful....some 1970 reloading books don't specify H or IMR.

While H4831 and H4831sc are the same, IMR is much hotter.

Make sure your using the best information...buy 1or 2 new books.
Hodgdon's reloading magazine is cheap and good.
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Good Shooting....Good Hunting....Have Fun....Be Safe

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#2550709 - 10/01/13 11:14 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
lhitchcox Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 699
Loc: SE Tennessee
It has been a long time since I used H4831 in the .25-06, but your load is right on the mark. I used somewhere between 53.0 and 54.0 grains in a couple of .25-06s with the 117 Hornady soft points, which will use the same data as your SSTs. My rifle though prefers H4350 with 100-120 grain bullets.

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#2550720 - 10/01/13 11:59 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Bigdog2]
Ramjet Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 595
Loc: West Tennessee
The hogdon book from the 70's does specify h4831 and my understanding is imr4831 is a faster powder . I have never assumed that hodgon numers are exactly the same as imr.
_________________________
All you need in life is a boy and an old yellow dog and you have everything!

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#2550798 - 10/01/13 04:52 PM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
lhitchcox Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 699
Loc: SE Tennessee
There is a difference between the IMR and H versions. The H4831 and H4831sc uses the same data with the difference being that H4831sc packs tighter and can usually fit the case without compressing the kernels.

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#2550991 - 10/02/13 12:02 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
Bigdog2 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/23/02
Posts: 1961
Loc: Oregon
I've a Sierra book that old that doesn't specify manufacture. I got lucky and only popped the primers out of the back of the cartridge using IMR. All that smoke in your face is scary. Finally pulled the slugs and threw away the IMR away. Nothing wrong with IMR except when you use too much
_________________________
Good Shooting....Good Hunting....Have Fun....Be Safe

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#2550998 - 10/02/13 12:09 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
6mm06 Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 4811
Loc: USA

The late Bob Milek spoke well of H4831 for making the 25-06 shine. Mine does exactly that with that powder. I have used both H4831 and H4831SC and have not seen any noticeable difference, except the short cut is easier to meter.

I use 100 gr. Speer SPs for everything and have had great results with them. I haven't used the bullet you mentioned.

Good luck with it. The 25-06 is a real winner.

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#2551038 - 10/02/13 07:36 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: 6mm06]
Ramjet Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 595
Loc: West Tennessee
My next load will be some 100 grain Speer boatails . I've shot a few but I think I will try a little faster powder . Maybe Ramshot Hunter. Tried Ramshot Magnum in my 300 Wby and it is great stuff. Using Xterminator in my 223's and it is great as well , very clean burning.
_________________________
All you need in life is a boy and an old yellow dog and you have everything!

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#2551439 - 10/02/13 10:16 PM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
Bigdog2 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/23/02
Posts: 1961
Loc: Oregon
To play devils advocate.....if your shooting 100 grain pills, it seems you've lost the biggest advantage to a 25 caliber, and you should have just bought a 243/6mm.

Don't get me wrong my 25-06 has shot lots of 100s, but the real advantage to this reach out and touch it caliber, is its ability to reach out with the heavier bullets at longer ranges with more terminal energy. Try the 115 gr Nosler ballistic hunting tips with their higher BCs
_________________________
Good Shooting....Good Hunting....Have Fun....Be Safe

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#2551485 - 10/03/13 12:17 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Bigdog2]
Smokeless Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 2605
Loc: Radiator Springs
Originally Posted By: Bigdog2
To play devils advocate.....if your shooting 100 grain pills, it seems you've lost the biggest advantage to a 25 caliber, and you should have just bought a 243/6mm.






If you think that the 25-06 with 100gr pills is on par with the 243 or 6mm Rem, then you just havent shot a 25-06 much. MHO
_________________________
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession, but I believe that it has a striking resemblance to the first.


"Hard tell'n, not know'n"

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#2551617 - 10/03/13 10:46 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
204Gunner Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 1202
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
I agree with BigDog2. The BC of a 100 gn .257 is actually lower than the same grain bullet in .243.
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Bang.....WHOP! DRT

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#2551636 - 10/03/13 11:52 AM Re: 25-06 loading [Re: Ramjet]
6mm06 Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 4811
Loc: USA

Well, you can run the figures all you want, BC, SD etc. of both the .243 and the 25-06, and come to some conclusion that the .243 will outperform the 25-06. Field results are where it counts. If your .243 works well for you, then by all means use it. I prefer my 25-06. If you wish to shoot 117 gr. bullets in the 25-06, then go for it. 100's work great for me.

I can just as easily use my .243 (two of them) or my 6mm06, but when it comes to antelope my first thoughts are 25-06. I like it, the rifle fits me well, it's accurate and a real pleasure to shoot. I have confidence in it based on in-field experiences. The Speer 100 gr. puts them on the ground, 7 of them so far with that rifle / cartridge / load and none lost with shots up to 300 yards. The Speer is a bit tougher constructed bullet than a lot of 100s are. I have taken mule deer too with that load. Are you suggesting that I should switch to my .243 and 100 bullets because the BC and SD aren't right?

I could just as easily load heavier bullets. I have some Nosler 110 gr. Accubonds, Hornady 117 BTSP, and some Sierra 117 gr. Spitzers on hand. When load developing, the Speer 100s turned in the best accuracy. I gave them a try. They work well in the field for me, so I have no need to switch. Actually that bullets works so well and is so accurate in my rifle, that is is now my bullet of choice for deer, antelope and on down WHEN I use the 25-06. The same load is a great groundhog getter, crows too. What ever works, works, right. The BC, SD figures are so slight as to be negligible in my mind. There is one other consideration, however that hasn't been mentioned, and that is bullet diameter.

Maybe if I were shooting extended ranges, I might consider a heavier bullet in the 25-06, but only if I could get the required accuracy to be able to pull off a killing shot. But, when I think of ranges further than 300 yards, I generally step up to a larger caliber, generally a 7mm. I wouldn't reach for a .243. But hey, that's just me.

The 25-06 is a great cartridge any way you look at it.

Enjoy your rifles / cartridges whatever you use.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you are using a .243 and 100 gr. bullets for antelope? I'd like to hear your successes, and some good photos of course. Not that you are going to talk me out of my 25-06 and the Speer 100s, I'd just like to hear your stories and learn.




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