Baiting



UPDATE ON NIGHT VISION PROBLEM


This evening I went back to the cabin, put the rifle in the window foam as if I would be hunting, set up targets and fired a few rounds. Here's the results:

Group #1 - I fired two rounds that went high into the black circle. I then removed the NV apparatus, replaced it and fired one more round to see if it had a repeat zero.
It did, for a total 3-shot group of .410". Problem is that I resighted yesterday morning after taking the coyote, and both shots went into the white circle near center.
This time all went high.

Group #2 - I readjusted down 4 clicks (1/4" increments) and fired two rounds. POI was practically unchanged.

Group #3 - After allowing the barrel to cool for a while, I adjusted down 4 more clicks and fired two more rounds. POI dropped a bit low.

Group # 4 - I adjusted up 1 click and fired two shots after the barrel cooled for a few minutes. POI was practically unchanged.








Summary:

The NV outfit shows consistency when shooting groups, which is very rewarding and shows that the aiming point by using the LCD is consistent. It performed beautifully today.

Also, this test seems to indicate that the window foam and removing the NV apparatus, then replacing it are not an issue.

The test also speaks well for the load with the 25 gr. Hornday HP.

My conclusion is that the problem is spelled like this - T-A-S-C-O. I believe the Tasco scope is the villain. I have had a very difficult time in adjusting the scope to hit center bull.
I adjust a little and nothing happens, then I adjust a little more and it's way over-corrected. Once sighted, later I find that it is not.

In Tasco's defense, I will say that I have a couple of Tascos that have done very well over the years, but apparently this scope has an issue - or at least I hope that's the problem since it can be an easy fix. Time will tell.

I plan to replace the scope (not sure what with), maybe with one that has Adjustable Objective to correct for parallax, even though I don't seem to have a parallax problem.

Suggestions for a scope? A shorter eye relief will most likely be better.

If I understand correctly, Roland said that some of the cheaper scopes might actually work better with this NV deal due to them having less coating on the lenses, thereby allowing IR to pass through better. I hope I am correct with this statement. I read it somewhere. UPDATE: Roland has since informed me that any difference between scopes with varying coatings, is minimal, and can be corrected if need be by using more IR.

If this POI shift from one session to another can be solved, then this little NV deal is going to be really neat. I'll keep you informed.

I'm very encouraged after today's shoot.


 
Hi David. That is some set-up you have there. I like it. Your POI just might be the same problem I had at one time. After you adjust the scope cross hair, you have to tap the body of the scope to make the cross hair settle in. Other wise they will creep on you and be off the next time you shoot your gun.
Of course I have cheapo Simmons and Bushnell scopes. That may not be your problem but you could try it, it worked for me.
Here is a video of my set up where I shoot from. The only thing I don't show is my light that I mount to my scope.

Click on the link below the photo to see video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86l5TdbLya4&feature=share&list=UUOwoYCR5iaHOFl4fJWlRZhA
 
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Hey Jim,

That's a really neat setup.

What about night shooting?

I have been tapping the scope turrents to hopefully help settle the crosshair.

 
Yeah I have a C4P Striker light that mounts to my scope.
I just pop off the JVC camera and mount the light.

I take a rubber handle screw driver and tap the body of my scope and I have no problems with the crosshair moving. I was having the same problem as you have until I read about this on the internet. No more problems. Of course that may not be your problem at all?
 
Hey Jim! good to see your back. I wondered what happened to ya. I will bet you never thought your thread would still be going.
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Thanks Jim. I will definitely try that.

Nice shot on the fox. I assume a head shot?

Tonight I placed the home-made NV on a different scope, a Mueller Sport Dot 3x10. I like it. The dot reticle is nice and gives a definite aiming point. The good part also is, that when I illuminate the dot (only the dot illuminates, not the crosshair), the dot turns white rather than red as seen in the LCD. It's pretty neat, so I may give a Mueller a try.

Yotekiller, just jump in and hang on. Can you guys hunt with NV up there?


 
Originally Posted By: Wallbass45Hey Jim! good to see your back. I wondered what happened to ya. I will bet you never thought your thread would still be going.
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You are right wallbass, I never dreamed the thread would turn out like it has. It's got a life of it's own now. Thanks to people like your self and David (6mm06).
 
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Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Thanks Jim. I will definitely try that.

Nice shot on the fox. I assume a head shot?

Tonight I placed the home-made NV on a different scope, a Mueller Sport Dot 3x10. I like it. The dot reticle is nice and gives a definite aiming point. The good part also is, that when I illuminate the dot (only the dot illuminates, not the crosshair), the dot turns white rather than red as seen in the LCD. It's pretty neat, so I may give a Mueller a try.

Yotekiller, just jump in and hang on. Can you guys hunt with NV up there?



David if my eyes are not deceiving me it looks like you have that scope attached with one Ring ?? If so there may well be your POI problem, just a thought
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Oh BTW I got my Mueller 3x9 LOVE IT!
 
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Jeff, no, your eyes deceived you. The scope has two rings mounted into the rear tube section behind the turrents.
I wanted to get the scope far forward on the rifle so the bullet camera wouldn't extend so far rearward into my face
when shooting.









 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06Yotekiller, just jump in and hang on. Can you guys hunt with NV up there?

Yes we can use NV, It's just a little out of my price range right now. I guess I'll have to settle for my red LED setup until I can swing a NV setup like you guys have. I can't wait to see how your season goes with the NV.
 
New guy from SE Virginia here... I've spent the last several days reading through all 119 pages of this thread. Lots of good info here...

David, I like the shed setup you have, and the DIY NV setup. Someone mentioned the Sony night-shot way back in the thread, which got me to thinking about a camera looking through the scope. Then you start testing the bullet camera setup. I'm hoping that this setup works out because a regular NV setup is way out of my price range right now. That, and my old Sony night-shot camera is too big to mount on a rifle. LOL
 

Cozwurth, a hearty welcome to the forums. Where in Virginia do you live? This is a great place, with lots of information. We are looking forward to your reports and photos.

The home-made night vision is really nice, as far as being able to see well. If I can solve the POI shift, then I will wholeheartedly recommend this home-made version.

UPDATE: I spoke with Roland via e-mail pertaining to the POI problem. He reported that he has not experienced any issues like that, nor has he heard from anyone who has. He also mentioned that his scope has an adjustable objective for parallax, but we both think my zero should hold since I sight in via the LCD screen and not looking through the scope, then attaching the bullet camera later. I do think the Tasco scope is the issue and not the bullet camera / NV setup.

With the Eagle Tac illuminator, the whole deal costs less than $300. But, as I mentioned earlier, if you hunt from a bait site and a stationary position, you don't even need an illuminator. Trail camera IR will illuminate very well and you won't have any problem seeing. You just need a camera that will record video long enough to get a shot off. That why I like the Bushnell. It will do 60-second videos.

The storage building turned into a cabin has been a great retreat for me. I couldn't hunt these coyotes without it. I have stayed the night in it with temps well below 20 degrees and kept warm. Thus far I have taken 7 coyotes from the cabin, all with night vision. Six were taken with the dedicated Gen 1 ATN scope, and this last one of course with this new home-made deal.

Jim, I don't have any personal experience with the illuminator you mentioned, nor any 805nm illuminator, but I have an opinion for what it's worth. Not sure what your intended purpose for it is. I'll share what I have learned about illuminators, lights and wave spectrums. Please forgive me if I'm hashing over stuff you already know, but perhaps this info might help someone else.

I have had quite a bit of experience with 850nm lights, and an illuminator that operates at 850nm as well. Also, most trail cameras operate, to my understanding, at 850nm or thereabouts, and I have learned how animals respond to those wave lengths.

What I have learned is this - coyotes do see the red glow from 850nm IR (I can too), and the 805nm will have even more of a glow than an 850nm (higher the number, the less glow). Coyotes react differently to that glow since they are individuals. Some will tolerate it, or come to tolerate it better, while others never seem to and will jump and run when a trail camera kicks on. I've had coyotes tolerate the IR light one night, only to jump and run another night. Go figure.

My personal thinking is this, if you are searching for an infrared illuminator, get one with a high nm rating as long as your scope / camera will see it.

The 805nm may work well for you, but my thoughts are to go as covert as you can and get a higher number, maybe an 850nm or even higher, depending on what you need.

Just recently I purchased a DC-powered light that operates at 940nm. It's powerful. I have been wanting to test a 940nm light for quite some time, and finally took the plunge and got one. This light, shipped, was just under $100. It is total black out, no visible light at all that I can see. The only thing a coyote might be able to see would be the light housing itself.

Here's the 940nm light.






I tested this 940nm light from my shooting bench in my back yard, shinning it down the path to the target in the woods at 60 yards. I could barely see, not well enough to shoot. That was with the little home-made NV outfit. BUT, when I moved the light closer to the target, maybe 10 yards away from it, I could see extremely well from the bench to the 60-yard target. Most NV scopes do not see well (distances) with 940nm to my understanding. This little camera deal saw good light, but the light had to be closer to the target (bait site area) since it won't project a useable beam of light any great distance. Mounted on a tree or post near the bait site, this light should work like a charm.

By the way, lights like the 940nm one are also available in 850nm and are much cheaper, about half the cost of the 940, but they do give off a red glow. Also, both lights (940 & 850) have their own photo cells, so they will automatically turn on and off at dusk and dawn if you want to hook them up to a large DC battery, or they also operate at 110 volt AC with an adapter.

Not sure what your purpose is for the 805nm illuminator, but I will say this. "If" you are hunting over bait from a stationary position, then you might want to consider getting an IR light instead of illuminator, placing the light nearer the bait, and use a remote control switch (cheap on Ebay) to turn it on and off from your hunting blind / house when the alarm goes off. Believe me, the little remote control device works like a charm. I now have 5 of them. I'm in the process of mounting the 940nm light near the bait site and wiring in a newly purchased remote switch, though I may not even need it after seeing how well the Bushnell trail camera IR worked the other night.

But, if you want an illuminator for "out and about" hunting, or don't want to go to the trouble of setting up IR lights at the bait site, remote switches and stuff, then take a look at the Eagle Tac T100C2 IR that operates at 850nm. It sells for something like $70. You can find it at Illumination Gear.com. Tod is a good guy to work with.

That illuminator will generally allow you to see very well, while not producing a brighter light that an 805nm would. As well, the Eagle Tac is not so expensive.

Here's the Eagle Tac. It will fit inside a 1" scope ring.






 
David
Thanks for the the reply.They advertise this IR 805 infrared as being invisible to the human and animal both but you have to use it with a night vision camera. I have a red led light that works very good.
(C4P Striker). It's about the same size as the T100c2 just a little longer. That is what I shot the Fox with at 45 yds and it was turned to the lowest setting. I was going to use the IR for some night calling but I think I will just stick with my red led light.
 
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Jim, yea, for night calling you would need some sort of an illuminator.

It would indeed be nice if the 805nm were invisible to both human and animal eyes. Somehow I doubt the company's claim. If 850nm can be seen, then surely 805nm would.

I noticed the illuminator you referred to is similar in price to the Eagle Tac.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 
6mm06, FYI ...sometimes when you put scope rings too close and too tight near the adjustment knobs that can change poi...or make it difficult to focus or zoom. I try to keep them a finger width away.

On the smart coyotes...i keep the eagletac ir covered until im ready to use it...sometimes i get busted with the shinny inside part...

Great posts!
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Cozwurth, a hearty welcome to the forums. Where in Virginia do you live? This is a great place, with lots of information. We are looking forward to your reports and photos.

The home-made night vision is really nice, as far as being able to see well. If I can solve the POI shift, then I will wholeheartedly recommend this home-made version.

David,
Thanks for the welcome. My name is David, too, BTW. I'm in SE Virginia, just outside of Franklin. I'm mainly interested in thinning out a few fox from around my chickens right now, but I won't pass up a good shot on a yote if I get the chance. I have a neighbor who is really into trapping and calling coyotes. He and his son brought over a Foxpro caller, decoy, and his weapons of choice. He operated the caller and the light, and his son and I were the shooters. I used his son's Savage .223 to drop a fox that night, within the first few minutes of calling. He was DRT. That .223 put a surprisingly large hole in the side of that fox, but nothing on the other side.



I know there are more out there, and I want to thin their ranks a little. I like to let my birds out to range in the yard...it cuts down on the feed bill at least.
 

Mr. Benelli, thanks for the info on the scope rings. If that's the problem, then I can correct it easily enough. The only problem is that the bullet camera would extend back pretty far and make putting my cheek on the stock a bit cumbersome, if at all. As to finger width apart, I had to set them to accommodate the picatinny mount on the rifle, so had little choice with that.

Cozwurth (David), I have hunted before near Franklin, many years ago while in the military, stationed at Norfolk. I did some squirrel hunting over there on a pheasant / game bird preserve. Small world.

You will find in most cases, that the .223 is just too much gun for fox, that is if you are saving the skins. Otherwise it's perfect.

Do you have a lot of coyotes in that area?


 
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