Beware of Fur Buyer George Kortum (Western Montana Fur Buyers)

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bonecollector777

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George is one of the bigger cat buyers in the west, but also one of the biggest crooks. I had a cat that sold at the Kingman auction for $500. I was helping out with the sale and George left the building knowing that he had one more guy (ME) to write a check to before he left. It showed on his list who the checks needed to be written to and wasn't supposed to leave till everyone had collected money. So he left and I called him and he said his list didn't show he had bought my cat. While my list, the other two buyers lists, and the main ladies list showed that he did buy it. He said to wait until he could check his cats to see if mine was in there. So about a week later George calls and says he has the cat and to call back in a couple days to give shipping info for the check. So I called and when he talked to me he said you know what, I'm not giving you $500 for this cat. I'll maybe give you $400 and that's still too high. (Remember, this is after bidding at an auction with the winning bid going for $500) So basically he got my cat and now that it was in his possession he felt he could now name a price. He refused to pay the full $500 and after a long talk I convinced him to send my cat back to me. He is known to do things like this to people quite often so I just wanted to all let you know to be careful and to not deal with this guy. He is a crook and will do anything he can to rip you off.
 
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Another guy had 5 cats that he showed to George while in Kingman but wasn't able to sell them because he hadn't got the CITES tags yet. George promises a price of $3500 for the cats and told him to ship the cats to Montana once the CITES tags were put on. The guy shipped the cats and once the cats arrived George told the guy "you know what I changed my mind. These cats are only worth $3100 and that's all I will give you for them." So the guy made him ship the cats back. I have heard plenty of other stories about the man and none of them are ever good. BE CAREFUL
 
Yes he is quite the guy, I sold to him years ago, never thought he would still be in business.
Thanks for giving everyone a heads up bonecollecter, there are a lot of good fur buyers out there, sadly he is not one of them.
 
It sounds to me like what he needs is a good old fashioned beat down. You can't hardly get away with it these days but I do believe that sometimes the only thing that'll straighten a person out is a good butt kicking.
 
I think the auction house should have made sure all money was paid to the sellers before any buyer got to take possession.
George was in Las Vegas, NV the day before the Briar Patch sale in Kingman, AZ. He came off as cocky and arrogant. He basically seemed like he was his biggest fan.

He offered to put a bid on my cats. I had 2 cats left out of my much larger total that had already been sold. I averaged about $700 per cat and had a few go for over $1000.
George offered me $200 and $600. I literally laughed and said no thanks. I told him he was trying to low ball me and I knew it. I guess since I had only a couple cats with me he probably thought this was my first rodeo.

I sold them later that evening to my buyer for a fair $900 and $450. That's a huge difference.
In my opinion George is hurting his own reputation and less and less guys are willing to let him bid on their hard earned furs. If you have a properly put up fur ( no blood, Nevada style stretch, dry washed, and fleshed properly ), you should know about where your furs stand price wise compared to other's. Dont settle on the first bid if it seems low.
 
George has bought some of my fur last 2 years. Highest bid every time... Last time no check pulled cash out of his pocket and paid me there. He came over to my house after the December sale here and taught me about grading my coyotes put everything in lots for me and taught me a lot about what they are looking for. Anyways I have never had a bad deal with George.
 
My experiences selling to George have been good. He has been very competitive with prices. He is definitely a little rough but I would not hesitate to do business with him again.
 
I sold to George (among others) many years ago. Sometimes I felt like he got over on me a little bit, other times I thought he might of paid me a little more than some of the other buyers would of.. I always felt like in the end it all averaged out.

I can't say I ever felt he out and out cheated me. That's not to say that he would or wouldn't if given the chance. Sounds like he was damm sure trying to screw a couple of ya.

It's to bad.
 
People need to complain to the auction houses to put a stop to him buying. Coming here and telling us will not stop it. He will be back bidding again if you dont do something about.
 
I could not disagree more.

Complaining to the auction houses to get rid of, one of the, if not THE biggest cat buyers in the West?

That would be detrimental to 'cat sales.

George is a straight up guy, and he pays fair, up to above fair prices.

Moose
 
Sold to him the last 3 years and have been very pleased. He is one of the biggest buyers at the auctions, so if he was a crook he would have been band long ago.
 
Crooks come in different forms, sometimes they are so slick a fella doesn't even know that he has been taken.
In the fur business it is seller beware not buyer, you really need to know what you have as far a fur quality, size and grades,for the inexpiereanced(sic) among us that is when a guy like George works his magic. I have seen it happen with most fur buyers, they will buy your fur as cheap as you will sell it. So if you want the best deal be prepared to walk away with out a penny, once they know that you will not get soaked, they will pay what they have too to get your fur.

So maybe George is not a crook he just plays the game well, to well for my taste, that is why he is a big buyer, he makes a lot of money, but saves alot for who he buys for.
We as trappers and fur sellers need to really watch the markets and know who we are dealing with, to come out on the best end of the stick..
 
Bottom line on this: if they have an auction and the high bidder does not pay off, then the auction people should be notified and they should make him pay off.

You don't "play the game" after you make a deal. Reb is right. The auction company is the place to take this. If the auction gets the reputation of having people welch on bids, it hurts their business.

These kinds of threads only lead to a list of people who take one side or the other.
 
I went to the guy who put this sale on and he basically made it sounds like he wasn't going to make a big deal about it because one guy losing a hundred bucks wasn't worth it to lose the big cat buyer at his sales. Obviously I wont be going to his sale again and will make sure to pass the word around. I wasn't posting this to make people like or dislike him. I was stating what happened to me and what I know he does to other people. It's your decision to deal with him or not. Talking to George and trying to get him to think rationally is impossible. He thinks that because he has some other guys money to play with and is usually high bidder that he has some sort of reputation of being a big bad dude that does what he wants and people will listen because of who he is. I'd rather sell to someone giving less money than deal with a guy like George. One of the most rude, arrogant people I have met.
 
I have sold many cats over the years to George. George is always in the top 2-3 buyers at the sales both in price paid and quantity. His presence at a fur sale means more money for the trapper. It would be a grave mistake to not have him represented at any western cat sale.

The issue in this thread sounds to me to have resulted from the fur sale itself. There is a fairly long list of people that had one issue or another. As this was the first year of that sale I would expect some problems and would offer a pass on some of the issues to the folks putting it on. On the flip side there exists some components of that sale which will forever keep it from becoming what it could be.

Personally I will never sell a fur there nor direct anyone to the sale until they collect commissions for an association.

This recent battle which has only just begun here in California has further anchored my belief in associations. Associations have come to the rescue here in California to fight off this attack from the AR groups. Many individuals have been there as well with letters, phone calls and donations but the bulk of the bill is being paid by associations.

A no commission fur sale may sound like a great idea at the moment but it won't sound so good when you get attacked like we are here.

I have sold every skin I have ever taken at the same 3-4 fur sales for nearly thirty years and have personal relationships with most of the buyers. Put down more than a few Jack and Cokes with them. As well as I know a few of them and like most of them I never do business with any of them outside the sale. There is simply no beating forcing them into the competitive environment of a well run reputable sale. "business is business and Christmas is over"

Selling at a well run and organized fur sale where your skins are presented into a competitive environment will always get you a price representative of the market at that time and by nature will remove the temptation of the buyer to try and slight you.

You get more money for your furs making the money you pay in commissions a non issue. Its money you never would have had in the first place and it may help save your trapping privileges someday.

ML
 
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